Last modified: December 4, 2009


Outlands College of Heralds

December 4, 2009
From the Office of the Castle Herald
Baron Randal Carrick
castle@outlandsheralds.org

UNTO the Outlands College of Heralds, our respected friends and colleagues who give freely of their time to provide commentary, and all others who come by these letters, on this 4th day of December,  A.S. xxxxiv (2009 CE), does Don Randal Carrick send greetings on behalf of The Honourable Lady Marie de Blois, White Stag Principal Herald.

 

Here follows the Kingdom of the Outlands Letter of Presentation for December 2009. Your comments and suggestions are always welcome. Errors found herein are my sole responsibility.  Anyone may comment upon the items found herein, and e-mail commentary to the herald's commentary list is encouraged. Please have comments on items contained herein to Rampart Herald by January 19, 2009, for the decision meeting tentatively scheduled for January 20, 2009.  As a reminder, the College of Arms requests commentary on all items, including appeals.


Line Emblazon Sheet
Color Emblazon Sheet
December 2009 Letter of Presentation
January 2010 Letter of Response
January 2010 Letter of Intent
April 2010 LoAR Results
Return to the Rampart home page

1.  ∆ūeluulf munuc. New Badge. Vert, a stag statant argent, maintaining in its sinister foreleg an archbishop's cross Or.

(al-Barran) Submitter's name was registered on the November 2007 LoAR (http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/loar/2007/11/07-11lar.html) via the Outlands.

 

2.  ∆ūeluulf munuc. Device Resubmission (Laurel). Counter ermine, a straight trumpet Or surmounted by a ram's head cabossed argent armed Or.

(al-Barran) Submitter's name was registered on the November 2007 LoAR (http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/loar/2007/11/07-11lar.html) via the Outlands.

 

Submitter's previous device submission, Counter-ermine, a ram's head caboshed argent horned and jessant of a straight trumpet Or, was returned on the same letter, stating: 

This device is returned for combining two elements each of which is a step from period practice. The period motif of a lion's face jessant-de-lys, with a lion's or leopard's head cabossed and a fleur-de-lys issuant from the back of its head and out its open mouth, was the basis for this design; but we have no examples of the motif that uses any head but a lion's head, or any jessant charge but a fleur-de-lys. In theory, one might substitute another type of head, but precedent speaks to that issue:

[considering an owl's head jessant-de-lis] There was ... some concern that we here we are getting too far from period practice. (Period practice being leopard's head jessant-de-lys; one step from period practice being other beast's heads; and two steps from period practice being other types of heads, including birds' heads.) [Eudoxia d'Antioche, 03/96]

In theory, one might also substitute another type of jessant charge: but the history of the lion's face jessant-de-lys makes that improbable as a period motif. The original form of the arms of Cantilou or Cantilupe, Gules, three fleurs-de-lys Or, was modified c.1290 to Gules, three leopards' heads jessant-de-lys Or [Wagner's Historic Heraldry of Britain, p. 43]; so the heads were a modification of the fleurs-de-lys, not the other way around. There are, of course, other examples of animals' heads transfixed by pointed charges (swords, spearheads, etc.) in period; but the specific motif of a head jessant-de-[charge] is unique and separate from those. We must rule, based on the motif's history, that having a head jessant any charge besides a fleur-de-lys is likewise a step from period practice.

So we have the use of a head (not a leopard's) jessant, which is one step from period practice; and the use of jessant-de-[not a fleur-de-lys], which is a second step from period practice. (And the ram's head here is definitely jessant: the gold of the trumpet is seen coming out of the ram's mouth, and is in front of the lower jaw.) The two steps together bring this beyond the permissible bounds of heraldic style; it must be returned.

Mind you, if this had been Counter-ermine, a straight trumpet Or surmounted by a ram's head cabossed argent armed Or, it would have been acceptable style; and we were tempted to register it that way. But we cannot register a manifestly incorrect blazon merely to avoid a stylistic problem; by the correct blazon for what was submitted, this must be returned.

Submitter has re-drawn and re-blazoned the device to what Laurel wanted to register originally.

 

3.  ∆ūeluulf munuc. Badge Resubmission (Kingdom). Barry wavy argent and azure, a herring gules overall a bar gemel sable.

(al-Barran) Submitter's name was registered on the November 2007 LoAR (http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/loar/2007/11/07-11lar.html) via the Outlands.

 

Submitter's previous badge, Barry wavy argent and azure, a herring gules overall a bar gemmellied sable, was returned by Kingdom on the April 2009 LoR (http://rampart.outlandsheralds.org/2009-03-lop/0904-lor.html), stating: "Commenters indicated that there were an insufficient number of bars on the field to make this a good and clear 'barry-wavy', and that the herring needed to be drawn larger to fill the space. Thus, this is returned for a redraw"

 

Submitter has re-drawn the badge to be properly barry wavy, and has made the herring bigger.

 

4.  CŠelainn ingen ChŠemgein hui Thaidc.  Device Resubmission (Kingdom). Per pale argent and purpure, two annulets conjoined in fess counterchanged.

(Caer Galen) Submitter's name was registered on the May 2009 LoAR (http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/loar/2009/05/09-05lar.html) via the Outlands.

 

Submitter's previous device submission, Per pale purpure and argent, a Greek symbol 1000 voided, counterchanged, was returned by Kingdom on the January 2009 LoR (http://rampart.outlandsheralds.org/2008-12-lop/0901-lor.html), stating: "This device was originally returned for using an abstract symbol (The Greek character for 1000, commonly recognized as an infinity symbol). The device was resubmitted with no changes, so still falls afoul of this precedent and must be returned again"

 

Submitter has re-drawn and re-blazoned the device to more properly represent two annulets conjoined in fess.

 

5.  Dauid of the Isles. Device Resubmission (Kingdom). Or, a lymphad under sail gules, on a point pointed ployť azure a compass star Or.

(Drygestan)  Submitter's name was registered on the July 2009 LoAR (http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/loar/2009/07/09-07lar.html) via the Outlands.

 

Submitter's previous device submission, Or, a lymphad sable sailed gules, a point pointed ployť azure, was returned by Kingdom on the March 2009 LoR (http://rampart.outlandsheralds.org/2009-02-lop/0903-lor.html), stating: "It was raised in commentary that the mundane "Lord of the Isles", a British title held by the Duke of Rothsay (the Heir-Apparent of to the Throne of Scotland, currently HRH The Prince Charles) uses a sable lymphad in it's arms, and this charge, combined with the surname "of the Isles" could be considered presumptious, thereby falling afoul of RfS XI.2 "Armory that asserts a strong claim of identity in the context of the submitters name is considered presumptuous."

 

Submitter has changed the tincture of the lymphad to remove the appearance of presumption, and added a compass star to the point.

 

6.  Emma Lyliewhyt. New Name and Device. Gules, a lily flower argent slipped and leaved vert, and a base wavy argent.

(Ravenhyrst) Gender: Female.  Submitter cares most about the sound of the name. changes accepted.

 

[Emma] - found in "Feminine Given Names in A Dictionary of English Surnames by Talan Gwynek (http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/reaneyAG.html) and states: "Emma - 1130 Hampstead; 1187 Emm; 1195 Normanville; 1197 Boterell; 1198 Sinclair; 1205 Winston; 1212 Beaufoy; 1214 Converse; 1218-19 Shoe; 1219 Emm; 1220 Brook; 1221 Leverett; 1227 Fett; 1236 Beaufoy; 1240 ***; 1242 Poddington; 1244 Darling; 1275 Earl; 1279 Haylet; 1289 Cobbler; 1296 Pilling; 1297 Athorn; 1298 Glaston; 1301 Soper; 1307 Souster; 1313 Wellock; 1317 Sloper; 1323 Plaster; 1324 Allmark; 1327 Catchpole; 1332 Jacob; 1353 Emmatt; 1371 Markham; 1372 Springall; 1379 Cockney; 1381 xviii; 1401 (W); 1413 Emmatt; 1457-58 Bodley"

 

[Lyliewhyt] - found in Reaney and Wilson, A Dictionary of English Surnames, (paperback 1997 ed.) p. 279.  The first recorder spelling of the family name is shown to be that of John Lyliewhyt, dated 1376, in the "Court Rolls of Colchester" during the reign of King Edward 1.

 

7.  Llywus ap Alan. Badge Resubmission (Laurel). (Fieldless) In fess a candle enflamed in a sconce Or sustained by a natural panther sejant sable armed argent.

(Drygestan)  Submitter's name was registered in September 2003 via the Outlands (http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/loar/2003/09/03-09lar.html).

 

Submitter's previous badge submission, A natural panther sejant sable maintaining a lit candle in a sconce Or, was returned by Laurel on the July 2009 LoAR (http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/loar/2009/07/09-07lar.html), stating: "This is returned for conflict with the device of Gilles of Lennox, Or, a domestic cat sejant, paw extended sable. There is a single CD for fieldlessness, but nothing for the maintained charge."

 

Submitter's previous badge emblazon can be found here: http://rampart.outlandsheralds.org/2009-02-lop/0902emblazons.html.  Submitter has re-drawn the candle and sconce larger, so as to be co-primary with the panther as a sustained charge to clear the conflict.

 

8.  Meliore Gimigna Fioravanti.  New Badge.  (Fieldless) a pomegranate, seeded, Or within a serpent involved gules.

(Caerthe)  Submitter's name was registered on the February 2009 LoAR (http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/loar/2009/02/09-02lar.html) via the Outlands.

 

9.  Outlands, Kingdom of the. New Badge. Pily bendy Or and vert, in pale a stag's attire fesswise gules and a mountain of three peaks sable charged with an apple tree eradicated Or fructed gules.

(Outlands) Submitter's name was registered on the July 1986 LoAR (http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/loar/1986/07/lar.html) via the Outlands.  This badge is to be associated with the Kingdom of the Outlands.

 

10.  Sander Tauernier.  Change of Primary Name from Dominique Delvaux d'Ardennes.

(Ravenhyrst) Gender: Male. Submitter cares most about the meaning of the name, left undefined.  Changes Accepted.  If this name is registered, submitter wishes to release the old name.

 

Submitter's original name was register in May 1997 via Atenveldt (http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/loar/1997/05/lar.html).

 

[Sander] - found in "Dutch Names 1358-1361" by Aryanhwy merch Catmael (Sara L. Uckelman), http://heraldry.sca.org/names/dutch/earlydutch14.html.

 

[Tauernier] - attributed the meaning "Innkeeper" in "Names in the Low Lands 1250-1300 - High-medieval given names and bynames in The Netherlands and Flanders: Occupational names and nicknames" by Dr. Kees C. Nieuwenhuijsen, http://www.keesn.nl/name13/en4_list_by.htm.  This is indicated to be the original spelling from the Middlenederlands language.

 

11.  Vanna Lucia Taormina. Device Resubmission (Kingdom). Quarterly sable and gules a butterfly and a bordure embattled argent.

(Caerthe) Submitter's name was registered on the April 1999 LoAR (http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/loar/1999/04/lar.html) via the Outlands.

 

Submitter's previous device submission, Gyronny sable and gules, a butterfly argent within a bordure embattled argent, was returned by Kingdom on the May 2003 LoR (http://rampart.outlandsheralds.org/2003-03-lop/lor0503.html), stating: 

 

This device will be returned, as the use of the two-color gyronny field violates RfS VIII.2.b.iv. "Elements evenly divided into multiple parts of two different tinctures must have good contrast between their parts." The division of this field is especially obscured by the butterfly and bordure.
al-Jamal: (device) Yup, too many divisions of the field to be all color (here, black and red). The first "argent" in the blazon is unnecessary: "In blazoning a Coat of Arms in which two or more Charges of the same Tincture immediately follow each other in the Blazon, it is not necessary to mention the tincture until all the Charges of such Tincture have been specified." (John E. Cussans, Handbook of Heraldry, 1882, p. 161)
Musimon: (device) Aside from the tincture problems noted in the LoP, there is a redundant argent in the blazon. The client should probably be made aware that there is already somebody in this kingdom with armory similar to what she is submitting: Sidonia of Seven Oaks (1/90 via the Outlands): Azure, a butterfly argent between four acorns in cross Or, all within a bordure embattled argent. There is a CD for changes to the field and another for removal of the secondaries, but the fact that Sidonia is also from the Outlands may be worth consideration.
ACTION: Device returned for contrast issues.

 

Submitter has re-drawn the device quarterly to avoid the contrast issues from the previous submission

 

Thus ends the December 2009 Letter of Presentation.

Your servant,

Randal Carrick

Rampart Herald
Castle Herald

Line Emblazon Sheet
Color Emblazon Sheet
December 2009 Letter of Presentation
January 2010 Letter of Response
January 2010 Letter of Intent
May 2010 LoAR Results
Return to the Rampart home page