Last modified:February 12, 2011

Outlands College of Heralds

February 12, 2011From the Office of the Castle Herald
Lady Tatiana Moskovskaia
castle@outlandsheralds.org

Unto the Outlands College of Heralds, our respected friends and colleagues who give freely of their time to provide commentary, and all others who come by these letters, on this12th day of February, A.S. XLV (2011 CE), does Lady Tatiana Moskovskaia send greetings on behalf of Sheik Omar Mohammud Mirzazadeh, White Stag Principal Herald.

It would assist Castle Herald greatly in the future if you would e-mail a copy of the documentation summary for name submissions along with the paper copies;  It saves having to re-type everything again.  Also, please be sure that you include dates of registration and return for armory for previously registered names and resubmissions of any kind.  If Castle can't find where an item was returned, it may be pended until the information is provided or payment is made for a new submission.

Here follows the Kingdom of the Outlands Letter of Presentation for February 2011. Your comments and suggestions are always welcome. Errors found herein are my sole responsibility.  Anyone may comment upon the items found herein, and e-mail commentary to the herald's commentary list is encouraged. Please have comments on items contained herein to Rampart Herald by March 15, 2011, for the decision meeting tentatively scheduled for March 16, 2011.  As a reminder, the College of Arms requests commentary on all items, including appeals.

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Color Emblazon Sheet
February 2011 Letter of Presentation
March 2011 Letter of Response
March 2011 Letter of Intent
June 2011 LoAR Results
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1. Alditha de la Tye - New Name and Device. Azure, within a lunel argent, a quaterfoil Or.
(Hawk's Hollow) Gender: Female. Submitter cares most about the language/culture - 13c England.
Changes accepted.

[Alditha] ­

- By the late Charles Wareing Endell Bardsley; page 45 of A dictionary of English and Welsh surnames: with
special American instances

http://books.google.com/books?id=e85rAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=DICTIONARY+OF+ENGLISH
+AND+WELSH+SURNAMES&hl=en&ei=x38wTenBK4bWgQelaGmCw&sa=X&oi=bookresult&ct=result
&resnum=1&ved=OCDEQ6AEwAA#v=snippet&q=alditha&f=false
- As noted in the Academy of Saint Gabriel report 3379, April 2009 From: Gwenlliana Clutterbooke, fifth paragraph
down " ..... There are several instances of <Aldith> in the 13th century. [3) This is the vernacular form of the name and would have been pronounce
roughly \ AWL-dith \ . The Latinized form would be <Alditha>." 

http://www.panix.com/~gabriel/public-bin/showfinal.cgi/3379.txt

Castle notes: Alditha also can be found at http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/talan/reaney/reaney.cgi?Aldith

Alditha 1189, 1200, 1210 (W); 1212 Allday; 1222, 1228 (S);1243, 1300 (E); 1313 (W

[de la] - of the

[Tye] - By the late Charles Wareing Endell Bardsley; specifically page 774 of A dictionary of English and Welsh
surnames: with special American instances

http://books.google.com/books?printsec=frontcover&dq=DICTIONARY+OF+ENGLISH+AND+WELSH+SURNAMES&ei=

x38wTenBK4bWgQelaGmCw&ct=result&pg=PA45&id=e85rAAAAMAAJ#v=onepage&q=Tye&f=false

2. Daiyama Chotaro Motohisa - New Name. Alternate name for Conall Og mac Dabhidh, registered in January 2005, via Outlands http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2005/01/05-01lar.html
(Dragonsspine) Gender:Male.Submitter cares most about the spelling (first letters in English translation beginning somewhat with CMD of submitter's name) and language/culture (Japanese).

[Daiyama] -

Dai(proto) - is documented as actually occurring in period as a "prefix" in somewhat frequent surnames of the period, and along with -yama(deu) occurring quite frequently for the suffix
(Bryant, 2004), creates a very plausible myoji.
Daiyama (aka Big Mountain) is a geographical-type allusion for a surname, which is accurately to in other such "surname" constructions of period Japan.

[Chotaro] -

Cho- (proto) is documented as actually occurring in period as a prefix in somewhat frequent intimate names of the period and along with -taro(deu) for he "suffix", creates a very plausible zokumyo.

[Motohisa] - is documented as actually occurring in period as a somewhat frequent given name (Throndardottir, 2001) (NCMJ 2nd Ed, pg. 165), creating a very plausible nanori.

References: Trondardottir, S (1999). Name construction in Medieval Japan. Columbia, MO: Potboiler press.
Throndrdottir, S and The Academy of Saint Gabriel (2001), Japanese formal masculine given names,

http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/solveig/nanori/
Bryant, Anthony J (2004) Japanese garb:Japanese names(written permission given for attached copies, July 2009)
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/miscellany/names.html

3. Eircc mac Ghillie Mhaolain - New Name and Device. Quarterly Or and azure, 1st and 4th on a fess vert, three garbs of the field Or, 2nd and 3rd a pair of swords crossed argent.
(Nahrun kabirun) Gender: Male. Submitter cares most about Language/culture (Welsh/Irish)
No major changes accepted.

[Eircc] - gentive of Ercc. Mosr Popular Names in Early Medieval Ireland
http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/tangwystyl/irish100/

Scottish Family names - Mac - see MacMillan http://www.domesdaymaps.com/sfn-mac.htm

(Castle notes - no other info regarding the surname is provided)

4. Gwynvieve Duibher - New name and Device. Per saltire purpure and azure, a unicorn's head couped ermine.
(Unser Hafen) Gender: Female. Submitter cares most about the sound of the name (gwinvev)
Changes accepted.

[Gwynvieve] - Geneveive - Personal and Family names by Harry Alfred Long, 1883, pp.109, 110
also Genevieve - Name this Child, by Eric partridge. 1936, pg.125

[Duibher] - The surnames of Ireland, by Edward MacLysaght, 1873, p.107.
Also at http://www.dwyerclan.com/name.htm

5. Isabol de Chateau Cheval Noire - New name and Device. Argent, a stallion rampant sinister reversed
sable with a lightning bolt on the shoulder argent, bordure sable.
(Nahrun Cabirun) Gender: Female. Submitter cares most about the meaning of the name
(Isabol of Dark Horse Keep, which is persona's home). Changes accepted.

[Isabol] - form of Isabel. Isabeau de Baviere, Queen Consort of France (1385-1422)

[Chateau] - Castle,French, Oxford-Hachette French Dictionary

[Cheval] - Horse, French.Latin, Oxford-Hachette French Dictionary

[Noire] - Black(feminine form), French, Oxford-Hachette French Dictionary

Locative or Toponimic name. "The aristocracy usually adopted inherited surnames early on and the
peasants did so later. Some of the specific types are: The patronimic, the locative or toponimic,
an epithet or a name derived from occupation ,office, status.
http://heraldry.sca.org/welcome.html

6. Jakob Narr - New name and Device. Lozengy gules and argent, a jester's bauble vested vert sticked proper, between two bells Or.

(Unser Hafen) Gender:Male. Submitter cares most about language/culture (16c German)

[Jakob] - Jakob y Kayela, 1437, Germanic http://heraldry.sca.org//laurel.names/FinnishNamesArticle.htm

[Narr] - Klaus Narr, 1520, Dictionary of German Names, H. Bahlow

7. Jantien van Vrankenvoert - Name and Device resubmission (Kingdom). Sable, an escallop within a bordure argent.

(Hawks Hollow) Gender: Female. Submitter cares most about language/culture (undefined). No major changes accepted.

Submitter's previous name Jentien Van der Roet and Device Argent, a pale sable, overall a triskele of tulips slipped and leaved counterchanged, were returned on May 2004 LoR http://rampart.outlandsheralds.org/2004-04-lop/0405-lor.html for the following reasons:

The documentation provided supported Jantien, not Jentien. Although the submission form states that there is support for the 'a'/'e' swap, none was provided (or possibly I did not see it clearly enough). Secondly, Van der Roet was submitted as a constructed byname meaning "of the soot", based on the examples van de Weyden ("of the meadow") and van der Zee ("of the sea"), but "soot" is a pretty far cry from "meadow" and "sea". Both meadows and seas (or at least a ship on the sea) are reasonable literal locations to be from, and one is only likely to be from some soot in a figurative sense, and naming practices in period tended to be much more literal ("Crookshanks") than figurative ("the Indecisive"). Also, I'd really like to see some additional examples, to have a better idea of the pattern, especially since one of them is during the "grey period" between 1600 and 1650.
The device is being returned, based on the precedent:
"The only time we permit a charge to be counterchanged over another is when they are both ordinaries." (Shire of Crystal Crags, 12/98 p. 13)

[Jantien] - "Historisches Deutsches Vornamenbuch", von Wilfried Seibicke, Band2, F-K, Walter de Gruter-Berlin-New York, p.524.

[van Vrankenvoert] - Locative surnames based on the place of residence, van Vranckenvoert1422 http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/dutch/dutch15surnames.html

8. Raes Augustine - New Device. Quarterly vert and ermine, in dexter chief a fox courant Or.

(Caerthe) Submitter's name was registered in June 2010 (via Outlands) http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2010/06/10-06lar.html

9. Bloodstone Keep - Resubmission of a Name change from Readstan, Canton of, which was registered in March 2007 (via Outlands)

http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2007/03/07-03lar.html 

(Readstan) The name was returned in August 2005 LoAR http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2005/08/05-08lar.html for the following reasons:

No documentation was submitted and none found to suggest that bloodstone was a reasonable descriptive element for a castle name. In this case, the construction is argued as surname + keep. So, to be used in a castle name Bloodstone must be a reasonable inherited surname. Although the word bloodstone is dated in the OED to 1551, this is as a type of stone. It was argued that the name might be a sort of descriptive byname. Indeed, the word is registerable as a late period nickname, but a nickname found only in the latter half of the 16th century is not an appropriate candidate for an inherited surname in our period. The only evidence of Bloodstone as a surname is from a genealogy site, but such sites have long been noted as not appropriate for name documentation purposes.
 

[Bloodstone] - In England there were examples of castles being named for the area which they protect (i.e.Framligham Castle). Thus, the stated reasoning that Bloodstone must be an inherited surname is incorrect. Period usage would indicate that a place name is also acceptable.

There are a large number of place names in England, that have the name element -tun (farm settlement), which over time has become -stone (or -ton, -ston, -stan, etc). Frequently, the first part of the place name refers to the family (or head of the family), who was the primary tenant or owner of that area. This gives us names such as Adderstone, which, according to the Institute for Name Studies at the University o.,f Nottingham, derives from : "Eadred's farm/settlement", OE pers.n., OE tun" (http://www.nottingham.ac.uk./~aezins//kepn/detailpop.php?placeno=13757)

In the index to 1332 Lay Subsidy Rolls for Lincolnshire, England, we find listed one William Blod

(http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/mari/LincLSR/GivW1.html), blod, being the old English version for blood.

Thus, Bloodstone could be constructed of Blod (a family name) and -tun (or -stone, meaning "a family setelement")

This conclusion closely follows the example given for construction of a place name in Rules of Submission.

The submitter states that they are willing to accept the deletion of "Keep", if that will make the name registerable.

Line Emblazon Sheet
Color Emblazon Sheet
February 2011 Letter of Presentation
March 2011 Letter of Response
March 2011 Letter of Intent
June 2011 LoAR Results
Return to the Rampart home page