Last modified: July 28, 2004

Outlands College of Heralds

From the office of the Rampart Herald
Lady Alia Marie de Blois
rampart@outlandsheralds.org

Line Emblazon Sheet
Color Emblazon Sheet
April 2004 Letter of Presentation
May 2004 Letter of Response
May 2004 Letter of Intent
September 2004 LoAR Results
Return to the Rampart home page.

Commentary was provided by: Master Da'ud ibn Auda, al-Jamal Herald; Lady Aryanhwy merch Catmael, Boke Herawde; cnut; Lord Gawain, Green Anchor Herald; and Lady Mór inghean Chathail. Thank you all.

Present at the Rampart Decision Meeting: Alia Marie de Blois, Rampart Herald; Anne Aliz de Basle, Fretty Herald; Charles Robert Blackstone; Juan Balthazar Tegero; AEthelwulf of Golias; Odile Balestra; Melchior auf die Missen.

(Unless otherwise noted, all submittors will accept all changes, have no authenticity requests, and wish a name with the "common sense" gender, based on the submitted name.)

The following submissions were sent on to Laurel and the College of Arms for final decisions:

  1. Bianca Mantegna. New Device. Argent, a bend sinister gules between a rabbit contourny and a rabbit sable.
  2. Bianca Mantegna. New Badge. Argent, two rabbits regardant sable.
  3. Brigit Camshrón. Change of Holding Name from Brigit of Tir Ysgthir.
    Her previous name submission, Brigit Inghean Uí chumaraín, was returned by Laurel in October of 2003 for a lack of documentation that Ó Cumaráin (of which inghean uí Chumaraín was intended to be a feminization of) existed in period, and her armory was registered under the holding name Brigit of Tir Ysgthir. Brigit is found on pages 36-7 of O'Corrain and Maguire's Irish Names. Camshrón is found on page 35 MacLysaght's Surnames of Ireland under the header Cameron.
    She cares most about the meaning "Cameron/Chambers" and the language/culture "Irish", she is interested in authenticity for "Irish" language/culture.
  4. Cadfarch ap Nir Caerleon. Resubmitted Name (kingdom) and Resubmitted Device (kingdom). Per pall Or, gules, and sable all semy of hawk's lures counterchanged sable and Or.
    Submitted as Cadfarch ap Nir CaerLeon, the capital L in the byname was lowercased because no evidence was found that a locative such as this would have a capital in the middle (and since the documentation gave the name in all caps, it wasn't possible to tell from there). It should also be noted that Morgan & Morgan's Welsh Surnames, lists this on page 65 under the header Caerleon (no capital L).
  5. Cristiane Woayde. New Name (See the returns section for the device).
    Submitted as Christian Woayde, the forms said that Christian is found in Withycombe, Oxford English Dictionary of Christian Names, 3rd ed, on page 61, dated to 1379. The actual spelling dated to 1379 is Cristiane, and it was changed to this spelling.
  6. Dalia d'Auria. New Name and New Device. Per pale sable and gules, two chevronels inverted Or.
    Inadvertently blazoned as "two chevronels Or" in the LoP, they are definitely "two chevronels inverted Or".
  7. Diana Kellye. New Name.
  8. Fíne Binnech. New Name and New Device. Argent, a triquetra purpure interlaced with an annulet within a bordure wavy gules.
  9. Jayne Barber. New Name (See the returns section for the device).
  10. John Armor. New Name (See the returns section for the device).
  11. Katrine van Deventer. New Device. Per chevron ployé purpure and argent, a mullet of seven points issuant from the line of division argent, in base a magpie sable marked argent.
    Originally blazoned as a mullet of eight points, the eighth point is missing (part of the chevron ploye), so this was reblazoned as a mullet of seven points.
  12. Melchior auf die Missen. New Name and New Device. Per pale argent and azure, an ermine spot counterchanged. Submitted as Melchior auf die Missen, "die" was dropped based on commentary that the "die" in Bahlow was probably an inadvertent untranslated "die" (thus should have read "the Missen"), and therefore, in a byname if would have been "auf Missen", "of the wooded swamps".
  13. Michael of Ravenskeep. Resubmitted Device. Argent, a pile sable and overall a chevron counterchanged argent and vert.
    His name was registered in July 2002 and his previous, identically blazoned device was returned at that time for improperly rendering the pile as issuing from the corners of the shield. This resubmission has the pile drawn properly.
  14. Œngus ua Faeláin. New Name and New Device. Argent, between two pithons erect addorsed, a wolf's head cabossed sable, fanged argent.
    Submitted as Œngus O' Faelan, O' was changed to ua as the proper connecting particle, and Faelan was changed to Faeláin, as found in the Index of Irish Annals (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/mari/AnnalsIndex/Masculine/Faelan.shtml), so that this is a fully Gaelicized name.
  15. Pettronella of Caer Galen. New Name and New Device. Per fess Or and azure, in pale a peacock in its pride proper and a wheel Or.
    Although authenticity for "16 Century" (unspecified) was requested, using an SCA group name pretty much precludes historical authenticy.
  16. Rafi'a al-Zarqa'. New Name (See the returns section for the device).
  17. Sajah al-Tayyibah. New Name.
    Submitted as Sajah Al-Tayyiba, the byname was changed to al-Tayyibah to have proper capitalization (namely, lack thereof for al-) and to match in transliteration with Sajah.
  18. Thomas Winterbourne of Kent. New Name.
    Thomas is found in Withycombe's The Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names on page 279, dated to 1086. Winterbourne and Kent are found in A Dictionary of English Surnames by Reaney and Wilson, with Winterbourne dated to 1341 on page 496 and Kent dated to 1185 on page 263.
    He will not allow major changes, cares most about the sound, and is interested in authenticity for "12th-14th C. English" langauge/culture.
  19. William Sutherland. New Name and New Device. Per bend sinister sable and vert in dexter chief an acorn slipped and leaves bendwise within a bordure engrailed argent.
    William is found in Black's Surnames of Scotland on page 816 under the header William, mentioning one "William the Lion (1165-1214)". Sutherland is also found in Black's Surnames of Scotland, on page 756 under the header Sutherlan, Sutherland, which says "From the name of the shire ... Alexander Sutherland ... 1441".
    He has no requests.

The following items were returned for further work:

  1. Æthelind of Erbystok. New Badge. (Fieldless) A key sable and a ladle Or in saltire.
    On the forms, this is called a spoon, but the emblazon definitely shows a ladle. I'm not sure how to blazon that the ladle is full of vert. The general consensus was that this was both too large to consider an artistic detail, yet there just wasn't a good way to blazon it. Additionally, RfS VII.7.a. requires that "Elements must be recognizable solely from their appearance." and RfS VII.7.b. requires that "Elements must be reconstructible in a recognizable form from a competent blazon." This is likely to fall afoul of both.
  2. Cristiane Woayde. New Device. Quarterly vert and azure, a catamount's head cabossed Or.
    This is being returned for multiple conflicts, including the Kingdom of Meridies, Vair ancient, a lion's head cabossed Or, orbed and langed gules, and Murdoch Bayne, Per chevron ermine and vert, in base a lion's head cabossed Or, each of which only have one CD for the change to the field. There are enough conflicts that I can only suggest meeting with the local herald and going conflict checking various other designs.
  3. Fína ingen Chionaith. New Device. Gules, a cross sable fimbriated argent between in bend two needles bendwise sinister Or threaded and in bend sinister two hands appaumy argent.
    This device is being returned for conflict. A charge X fimbriated Y can also be considered as "On a charge Y, a charge X." Considered as Gules, on a cross argent between in bend two needles bendwise sinister Or threaded and in bend sinister two hands appaumy argent a cross sable, this conflicts with Guy of Brackley, Gules, a fess Or overall on a pale argent a cross patty elongated in pale sable, with one CD for the added secondary group and no CD for changing only the type of the tertiary cross.
    I would also note that, even though it is not technically marshalling, at least one experienced herald mistook it for marshalling, and a resubmission should pay close attention to that. Additionally, this is really really skinny fimbriation.
    [Rampart Note 2004-07-14: Suddenly, that conflict makes no bloody sense. I'm reconsidering this device and sending it up.]
  4. Gwilym Sais. New Badge. (Fieldless) A dove volant argent, sustaining a scroll gules.
    This is being returned for a redraw. This posture isn't really very volant, nor does this dove have the distinguishing head tuft of a dove. Additionally, when redrawing, the blazon should probably indicate that the scroll is sustained in the beak, instead of with the wings or feet.
  5. Jayne Barber. New Device. Azure, a man and a woman dancing aversant argent and a chief ermine.
    This device is being returned, both for the very odd posture (an odd conjoining at the arms/shoulders) and per the following precedent:
    [a mermaid tergiant] ... the mermaid is in a non-heraldic posture. We know of no examples of humanoids or other mammals with their backs facing the viewer. [False Isle, Shire of, 10/99, R-An Tir] [Ed.: Returned for lack of petition]
    Even if the tergiant is merely a weirdness, the dancing position itself is a second step from period style.
  6. Jentien Van der Roet. New Name and New Device. Argent, a pale sable, overall a triskele of tulips slipped and leaved counterchanged.
    This name is being returned for multiple reasons. First, the documentation provided supported Jantien, not Jentien. Although the submission form states that there is support for the 'a'/'e' swap, none was provided (or possibly I did not see it clearly enough). Secondly, Van der Roet was submitted as a constructed byname meaning "of the soot", based on the examples van de Weyden ("of the meadow") and van der Zee ("of the sea"), but "soot" is a pretty far cry from "meadow" and "sea". Both meadows and seas (or at least a ship on the sea) are reasonable literal locations to be from, and one is only likely to be from some soot in a figurative sense, and naming practices in period tended to be much more literal ("Crookshanks") than figurative ("the Indecisive"). Also, I'd really like to see some additional examples, to have a better idea of the pattern, especially since one of them is during the "grey period" between 1600 and 1650.
    The device is being returned, based on the precedent:
    "The only time we permit a charge to be counterchanged over another is when they are both ordinaries." (Shire of Crystal Crags, 12/98 p. 13)
  7. John Armor. New Device. Or, two dragons combattant [unknown tincture], [a bordure sable?].
    No color copies of the device were received. The outline copies had no blazon, just these notes: "1) Gold base, 2) Dragons outlined in black, 3) black border to shield edge". From this, I've taken a couple shots at what he might have meant. The outline copy does not indicate any kind of bordure at all, other than the shield outline on the form which indicates the boundaries of the shape. It looks like the submittor lives in a remote area, relatively far from heralds, so if there's anyone with heraldic drawing skills who wants to try a redraw or two to give him some options, that might be nice. Let me know, and I'll try to get you in touch.
  8. Katrine van Deventer. New Badge. Per chevron ployé purpure and argent, a mullet of eight points issuant from the line of division argent.
    This device is being returned for conflict with Katya Anna Sylvan, Per chevron throughout purpure and argent, two compass stars argent and a fox sejant gules, with only one CD for the change in number of the primary charge group (1 vs 3), and Rivenstar, Barony of, Azure, a riven star argent, with only one CD for changing the field (azure vs per chevron purpure and argent).
  9. Niamh nic Moirreach. Change of Registered Name from Amanda Murray.
    This name is being returned for a combination of reasons. Firstly, nic is the post-period particle used for indicating relationship. It's period counterpart would be inghean mhic. Secondly, there are issues with Moirreach, including documentation, periodicity, and language. Since major changes are not allowed, and changing the language of an element is a major change, this cannot be changed to a registerable form. It appears that changing to either inghean mhic Mhuireadhaigh (Gaelic) or something like NykMurrye or NycMurre (Scots) would be fine.
    One commentor, who is more familiar with Scots and Gaelic names, gave me permission to quote her more fully, and I will only paraphase slightly for brevity, full titles of referenced books, and such.
    Firstly, she notes that what would become nic appears in Scots records as nyc or nyk, (see, e.g. "Scottish Gaelic Given Names for Women: Seonaid?" (http://www.medievalscotland.org/scotnames/gaelicgiven/women/seonaid.shtml), which has Scots examples of Janat NykCraiwye, Margret NycGleschen, Janat NycGleschen, and Magie NycGleschen, all from 1561). Since a name would be written in either Scots or Gaelic depending on the context, nyc or nyk would not be appropriate used with the Gaelic form Moirreach.
    Additionally, she comments that Moirreach looks like a modern form here and that Woulfe's Sloinnte Gaedheal is Gall: Irish Names and Surnames has mac Muireadhaigh as a header, as the Gaelic byname which gave rise to spellings like M'Murrey, M'Morrye in late period England. [Rampart: mac Muireadhaigh itself would not be registrable with a feminine name, since bynames were literal in period in Gaelic, and a woman couldn't be the 'son of' implied by mac.] MacLysaght's The Surnames of Ireland, under the header Murray also concurs; "apart from the Scottish Muurays, we have O' Muireadhaigh; mac Giolla Mhuire; Mac Muireadhaigh."
    Black's Surnames of Scotland, under the header Murray only discusses the locative roots, from de Moravia, but he does say "the name Murray in Galloway is most likely from MacMurray, q.v." Black also gives the Gaelic of this as Mac Muireadhaigh. Dated forms include M'Mury 1530, M'Murre 1553, McMurrye 1560.
    In conclusion, she recommends both inghean mhic Mhuireadhaigh and something like NykMurrye or NycMurre.
    Do note that this name cannot be made completely authentic because there is no evidence for Niamh as a name of real people, or in Scotland. It is, however, registrable by the precedent:
    While there is no evidence that Niamh was actually used in period, it appears in period sagas, in some cases as the name of a human being. [Niamh ingen Maola/in, 07/00, A-Meridies]
  10. Rafi'a al-Zarqa'. New Device. Sable, a paint brush and an ostrich quill in saltire argent between in chief a crescent and in base three mullets of eight points all within an orle Or.
    Blazoned on the forms as a bordure, this is clearly an orle.
    This is being returned for complexity and identifiability issues. Even with the full-size forms, at any distance greater than arm's length, the mullets of eight points were so small and blobby that they could not be identified. Additionally, a true mullet of eight points would have all of the points of the same length. In fact, all of the charges, excepting the orle, should be noticibly larger than they are currently. This does not quite fall afoul of the "slot machine" rule, but it does have a very high number of different charges (five: brush, quill, crescent, mullets, orle) and tinctures (for the number of charges. three: sable, argent, Or), which gives a complexity count of eight. Eight is pushing the line of being too complex.
  11. Ram's Keep, College of. New Name and New Device. Vert, a ram's head cabossed within a bordure embattled Or.
    These submissions are primarily being returned for the lack of a petition. Please see the Administrative Handbook (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/admin.html), particularly section IV.C.5. Evidence of Support, which says:
    Submissions involving the branch name or arms of an active branch must include evidence of support for the action on the part of a majority of the active members of the branch. In the case of branches with no ruling noble, this support may be demonstrated by a petition of a majority of the populace and officers or by a petition of the seneschal and at least three-quarters of the other local officers. In the case of branches with ruling nobles, such petitions must also include a statement of support from the ruling noble. A valid petition must include a clear description of the item submitted; either the blazon or emblazon is sufficient for a petition regarding branch arms, though both are preferable.
    When considering a resubmission of the name, please note the following precedent:
    "We do not register the scribal abbreviation (St.) But the full form (Saint), and the use of the apostrophe in possessives is not period." (Severian the Northumbrian of Saint Ninians Isle, 9/94 p. 7)
    Regarding the device, SCA groups are required to have a laurel wreath in their arms, as noted in the Administrative Handbook (see above), section II.D.2. "Branch Arms - The single piece of armory associated with the Branch Name of a Society branch which uniquely identifies that branch. By Society convention, all branch arms must include one or more laurel wreaths as an important element in the design." When redesigning, please do keep this in mind (for example, a laurel wreath in base, below the ram's head, would be sufficient.).

 

Line Emblazon Sheet
Color Emblazon Sheet
April 2004 Letter of Presentation
May 2004 Letter of Response
May 2004 Letter of Intent
September 2004 LoAR Results
Return to the Rampart home page.