Last modified: July 30, 2007
30 July 2007
From the Office of Rampart Herald
Furukusu Masahide (John Newton)
rampart@outlandsheralds.org
Unto the Outlands College of Heralds, the esteemed submitters, and all others who come by these letters, on this 30th day of July 2007, A.S. XLII, does Furukusu Masahide, Rampart Herald, send greetings.
My deepest gratitude to those who took time to send internal commentary: Aethelwulf Muenc, Brigida von Munchen (Heralds Hill Pursuivant), Cnut, Gwain of Miskbridge (Green Anchor Herald), Ines Alfón (Saker Herald), Marie de Blois (White Stag), Meradudd Cethin (Liber Herald), Rohese de Dinan (Shadowdale Pursuivant), Ursula Georges (Loyall Pursuivant), and Ximena Etxeberria.
Line Emblazon Sheet
Color Emblazon Sheet
June 2007 Letter of Presentation
July 2007 Letter of Response
July 2007 Letter of Intent
November 2007 LoAR Results
Return to the Rampart home page.
The following items were sent on to Laurel for final determination:
The following items were returned for further work:
Gender: Female. Submitter cares most about the meaning of the name - "daughter of the city of Nishapur". She requests a name authentic for Arabic language/culture. If the name change is registered, she wishes to retain her present name as an alternate. Changes accepted.
The previous submission, [A'isha bint al-Miraayaat], was returned on the January 2007 Letter of Response for lack of documentation.
Sources noted on name submission form:
The words of the submitter: "Founded during the 3rd century by the Sassanian King Shapur I, Nishapur is a city strategically located on the silk road trade route. It rose to prominence artistically during the 9th century for pottery, glass, and textile production. It became a learning and artistic center to rival Baghdad. Torghul, first ruler of the Seljuk Dynasty, made his residence there in 1037. Omar Khayyam, famous poet and philosopher, was born there in 1048 and died there is 1131. Farid al-Din, considered one of the greatest Sufi mystic poets, was born there in 1142. His tomb is one of the city's current attractions. Ghazali, a great philosopher and writer of law treatises, studied, lectured, and taught at one of the colleges in Nishapur during his life (1058-1111). The son-in-law of Genghis Khan was killed in Nishapur in 1221. With this rich history of art, philosophy, poetry, and trade, I can think of not better place for an artisan such as myself to be from."
Documentation for the other name elements is not provided. Here is what was presented on the December 2006 LoP: "A'isha: A'isha bint Abu Bakr was the daughter of Abu Bakr and a wife of Muhammad. Wives of the Prophet by Fida Hussein (Kazi Publications Inc, June 1979) is cited, but copies are not provided. Copies from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha) are included documenting A'isha, as well as several other random names that do not appear to have anything to do with this submission (if you are going to include photocopies, please enlighten me as to why they are included!); bint: "daughter of" (ie A'isha bint Abu Bakr; see above)"
Commenters indicate that this is not a properly formed Arabic name. One commenter provided significant notes:
One cannot be the daughter of a city; either one is from the city, or one is the daughter of a person from the city. Da'ud ibn Auda's article http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/arabic-naming2.htm has [al-Naysaburi], which he glosses "of Naysabur"; [Naysabur] is an Arabic spelling of the name of the Persian city of Nishapur. A name meaning "A'isha daughter of the man from Nishapur" would be [A'isha bint al-Naysaburi]. To build a name meaning "A'isha from Nishapur", we must construct a feminine form of the byname. This would be something along the lines of [al-Naysaburiya] or [al-Naysaburiyyah]; a name like [A'isha al-Naysaburiya] is appropriate if the submitter wishes to be from Nishapur herself.
In order to allow the submitter to revise the name based on the suggestions offered, the name is being returned for further work.
Styrbjorn Halte - August of 1994: [Vert, in pale a crescent inverted and a Thor's hammer Or.] 1 CD for type change of half of the primary group.
Blazon changed from [Vert, two crescents pendant in chief increscent in foot Or] to [Vert, in pale a crescent pendant and an increscent Or].
Gender: Male. The submitter cares most about the sound of the name. No major changes accepted.
[Lochlan]: Black, The Surnames of Scotland, p. 410 (header LACHLAN) - heir of Fergus of Galloway a. 1166 (LSC., p. 19).ad.
[Mac]: Black, The Surnames of Scotland, p. 447 (header MAC)
[Hay]: Black, The Surnames of Scotland, p, 350 (header HAY) - Of William Hay >Constable, slain at Dupplin, 1332, a.d.
Commenters provided significant comment on this name:
Either this should have cited Black on page 508, header "MACHAY", which says, "Rather from Ir. MacAodha than G. MacAoidh, 'son of Hugh', Michael M'Hay, a Douglas tenant in Brekaughlug, 1376" and used the dated spelling M'Hay, or it should have documented Hay as a given name and used "Quick and Easy Gaelic Names" to show the construction "mac + [father's given name, possibly lenited]". However, I have found no documentation (in an admittedly cursory search of Saint Gabriel and Black) for Hay as a given name so far.
The cited Hay in Black is used in all examples as part of a surname and apparently might have had the meaning "hedge" which would explain why almost all the examples are formed as locatives ("de Haya" 1178, "de Haia" 1206, "de Haye" 1228, "de la Haye" 1296, "dictus Haiy" 1320, "del Hay" 1363)
I would also note for "Lochlan", that the submission should have quoted Black more fully, to indicate that this was a dated spelling (under the header given in the LoP), "Lochlan, perhaps the same person, was heir of Fergus of Galloway a. 1166" (the "same person" comments a previous contemporary spelling "Lohlan"). This makes it more clear that this spelling is the referenced one.
Unfortunately, changing to M'Hay or simply Hay drops the number of 'words' in this name from three to two, which is a major change that the submitter does not allow. Similiarly, changing to any of the dated locative forms for Hay is a change in the meaning, which is a major change that the submitter does not allow.
Name returned for lack of documentation of the form of the name.
The device appears to be clear of conflict at this time.
Device returned for lack of name to forward it with.
Gender: Female. The submitter cares most about the language/culture of the name, defined as "Gaelic/Celtic". She wants the name to authentically mean "Shyla Robert's daughter" in 12th-14th century Irish. No major changes accepted.
[Seale]: no documentation provided that I could find (the two sources below are all that was cited).
[inghean]: "Quick and Easy Gaelic Names" by Sharon L. Krossa (http://www.medievalscotland.org/scotnames/quickgaelicbynames/), under "Spelling and Pronunciation", lists "inghean" as the post-1200 AD nominative case of "daughter".
[Roibeárd]: "Index of Names in Irish Annals" by Mari Elspeth nic Bryan (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/mari/AnnalsIndex/Masculine/Roibeard.shtml) lists Roibeárd as a masculine given name dated 1167-1608, with 35 occurrences. This spelling is the Early Modern Irish Gaelic (c1200-c1700) nominative form of the name.
The consulting herald indicates that upon questioning after submission the client indicated that [Seale] was a "made up" name and does not have any documentation. The consulting herald recommended a return for lack of documentation, and they would work with the client on a documented alternative.
Several commenters suggested [Síle] which is documented through several sources.
Name returned for lack of documentation.
The device appears to be clear of conflict at this time.
Device returned for lack of name to send it forward with.
Thus ends my Letter of Response.
In service and duty,
Furukusu Masahide
Rampart Herald
Line Emblazon Sheet
Color Emblazon Sheet
June 2007 Letter of Presentation
July 2007 Letter of Response
July 2007 Letter of Intent
November 2007 LoAR Results
Return to the Rampart home page.