Last modified: May17, 2009
Outlands College of Heralds
May 17, 2009
From the Office of the Castle Herald
Baron Randal Carrick
UNTO the Outlands College of Heralds, our respected friends and colleagues who give freely of their time to provide commentary, and all others who come by these letters, on this 17th day of May A.S. xxxxiv (2009 CE), does Don Randal Carrick send greetings on behalf of The Honourable Lady Marie de Blois, White Stag Principal Herald.
Here follows the Kingdom of the Outlands Letter of Presentation for May 2009. Your comments and suggestions are always welcome. Errors found herein are my sole responsibility. Anyone may comment upon the items found herein, and e-mail commentary to the herald's commentary list is encouraged. Please have comments on items contained herein to Rampart Herald by June 20, 2009, for the decision meeting tentatively scheduled for June 21, 2009. As a reminder, the College of Arms requests commentary on all items, including appeals.
Line Emblazon Sheet
Color Emblazon Sheet
May 2009 Letter of Presentation
June 2009 Letter of Response
June 2009 Letter of Intent
October 2009 LoAR Results
Return to the Rampart home page
1. Caer Galen, Barony of. New Order Name - Order of the Cochon Ailé.
(Caer Galen) Submitter cares most about the meaning of the name, defined as "Order of the Winged Pig". Changes accepted.
proposed Order name is French for “Winged Pig”. Adding wings to a standard
heraldic charge (the pig appears in the Pic-Dic under “Boar”) is a proper
way of forming an heraldic monster (RfS VII.5). Winged pigs (sometimes called
pigs, and sometimes boars) have been registered may times in SCA heraldry.
Order name follows the pattern for naming after a single heraldic charge, the
most common pattern for period secular Order names (see Medieval Secular
Order Names by Juliana de Luna, http://www.medievalscotland.org/jes/OrderNames/)
2. Conrad Von Zollern. New Badge. (Fieldless) A lion rampant sable.
(Hawk's Hollow) Submitter's name was registered on the March 2002 LoAR (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2002/03/02-03lar.html)
3. Justin Timme. Alternate Name resubmission for Conrad von Zollern.
(Hawk's Hollow) Gender: Male. Submitter cares most about the sound of the name, and will not accept changes to the name, nor the creation of a holding name.
Submitter's name was registered on the March 2002 LoAR (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2002/03/02-03lar.html) Submitter's previous alternate name submission, "Justin Case" was returned by Kingdom on the January 2009 LoR (http://rampart.outlandsheralds.org/2008-12-lop/0901-lor.html) for conflict. This submission changes the surname of the alternate name.
Both names found in Reany & Wilson, A Dictionary of English Surnames, 3rd edition
Justin: P. 259, header "Justin": Derived from the name of two Byzantine Emperors. Latinized dated to 1175.
Tymme: header "Timms": Dated to 1327.
4. Loghlan de Hay. Device Resubmission. Argent, on a fess azure between three escutcheons gules a wolf's head erased argent.
(Caerthe) Submitter's name was pended at Laurel until the April 2009 Laurel Meeting on the September 2008 LoAR (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2008/09/08-09lar.html). The original device submission, Argent, on a fess azure between three escutcheons gules a wolf's head erased argent, was returned by Laurel on the same LoAR, stating: "The wolf's head is not recognizable as such. Many commenters initially thought it was a cat's head. Therefore, this is returned for a redraw as a wolf's head. Properly drawn, this submission is not in conflict with Hay, Earl of Errol, High Constable of Scotland: Argent, three escutcheons gules. It is clear either by X.1 (for adding the primary fess) or by counting CDs (one for the addition of the primary fess, one for the addition of the tertiary head on the fess). Because we consider the new design to be entirely independent armory under our rules, the combination of the name and device is not presumptuous. The argument that any device with such a field combined with the surname Hay is presumption was made, and rejected, when we registered the device of Brendan Hay, Argent, two rapiers in saltire sable between three escutcheons gules, a bordure sable, in December 1992. Please see that decision for more details."
Submitter has redrawn the wolf's head as requested.
5. Monika the Fair. Badge resubmission. (Fieldless), A fret purpure ermined argent.
(al-Barran) Submitter's name was regitered on the October 1994 LoAR (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/1994/10/lar.html). Submitter's previous badge submission, A fret purpure ermined argent, was returned by Kingdom on the September 2008 LoR (http://rampart.outlandsheralds.org/2008-08-lop/0809-lor.html), stating "Armorial Identifiability: ermine spots aren't identifiable as such and are too small."
Submitter has re-drawn the ermine spots to be larger and more identifiable.
6. Raban der Schwarzwald. New Name and Device. Per chevron sable and gules, a chevron between three skulls argent.
(al-Barran) Gender:Undefined. Submitter cares most about the meaning and language/culture of the name, defined as "Germany, 'Raven from the Black Forest'." Changes accepted.
[Raban] Variant of Germanic Hraban, meaning "raven" (http://www.family-crests.com/family-crest-coat-of-arms/surnames-7-7/male-german-names.html). Bahlow, Hans. Deutsches Nameslexikon, P.391 dates the name to 830 or later.
[Schwarzwald] Schwartzweller is found (undated) on page 663 of Bahlow with the same meaning. von Schwartzwald is cited in Academy of St. Gabriel Report 2155 (http://www.panix.com/~gabriel/public-bin/showfinal.cgi/2155.txt) stating:
"The Black Forest, or <Schwartzwald> region has apparently been known by some form of that name since the 9th century.  Unfortunately, we do not find surnames based on the name until 1350, after your period. This could be because the area was so sparsely settled that no one thought to refer to it as someone's place of origin, or because people considered it too large to be a useful identifier for someone who did live there. We find the same pattern for names based on the Odenwald. For the very end of your period, however, we believe that <Swartzweldir> is a plausible name for a man from the Black Forest.  If it existed, it would have been pronounced \SWARTS-wel-deer\ from before the beginning of your period into the 13th century. During the 13th century, the pronunciation of <w> began to change from \w\ to \v\, making the pronunciation \SVARTS-vel-deer\ also possible for the end of your period. Another possible explanation for the lack of bynames based on <Schwartzwald> is that local people referred to it only as "the forest". We find the following names recorded in or near your period in Konstanz and Stuttgart, which are both near the Black Forest:  <von Wald>, 1317 "from the forest" or possibly, "from (a place called) Wald" <Waltman>, 1285 "woodsman, forester" <Waldenarius>, 1286 "woodsman, forester"  We don't know absolutely that these names relate to the Black Forest, but they do give you other options. We believe that any of these names would be appropriate for at least the last fifty years of your period. Prior to 1250, we do not find any names which we believe are appropriate to use in reference to the Black Forest. If you would like more options for the early part of your period, we recommend you choose a byname based on a more settled area, such as a town. Please write again if you would like further assistance. You should be aware that such a byname probably implies that the bearer no longer lives in the Black Forest; bynames of location were only useful if they didn't describe everyone in the neighborhood. You would probably not have to go far from the Black Forest in order for the byname to be meaningful, as we see in the examples from Konstanz and Stuttgart."
7. Sabyn. New Name and Device. Per pale vert and purpure a dragonfly volant argent.
(Rio de los Animas) Gender: Female. Submitter cares most about the meaning of the name. Changes accepted.
[Sabyn] Listed in Femenine Given Names in DES, part 3, by Talan Gwynek (http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/reaneyHZ.html). Submitter also includes Academy of Saint Gabriel Report 3266 (http://www.panix.com/~gabriel/public-bin/showfinal.cgi/3266.txt) which states:
ACADEMY OF SAINT GABRIEL REPORT 3266 http://www.s-gabriel.org/3266 ************************************ 7 Mar 2007 From: Aryanhwy merch Catmael Greetings from the Academy of S. Gabriel! You wanted to know if we could find any further examples of the feminine name <Sabyn> in England or Wales between 1400 and 1600. Here is what we have found. As we noted in earlier correspondence, we found a number of forms in <Sabine> in England in the 12th to early 14th centuries, including <Sabine> 1279, <Sabyn> 1273, the Latin form <Sabina> 1186-1210, 1220, 1295, 1303, and 1319, and the diminutive <Sabelina> 1182-83 and 1197. [1,4] After the early 14th century, it appears that the name became more rare. In Suffolk in 1381, we've found one example of <Sabyn> and two of the Latinized form <Sabina>. We also found two examples of <Sabbe> in this data set; this may be a pet form of <Sabine>. [2,3] In the late 15th century, we find a mention of "Stephen Harlowe and Sabyn his wife" , and then we find a few examples of the name in the 16th century: <Sabine> 1518-1529, 1545, and <Sabyn> 1582. [8,9,10] We also found one <Saban Snow> who married in 1569; this may be a variant of the same name.  If you haven't picked a surname already, you can find lists of appropriate choices in the Medieval Names Archive at http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/english.shtml We haven't found any examples of this name used in Wales , though it's not impossible that it was; there were plenty of English people living in Wales during this period, and as a result, some English names were adopted into the Welsh naming pool. We hope that this letter has been useful to you, and that you won't hesitate to write us again if any part was unclear or if you have further questions. Research and commentary on this letter was provided by Maridonna Benvenuti, Ursula Georges, Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn, Talan Gwynek, and Wenyeva atte Grene. For the Academy, -Aryanhwy merch Catmael, 07 March 2007
8. Tatiana Moskovskaia. Device Change Resubmission. Sable, a griffin statant tail nowed, between three hourglasses argent.
(Canton of Ravenhyrst) Submitter's change of name from Eowyn Erthton to Tatiana Moskovskaia was sent to Laurel on the February 2009 LoR (http://rampart.outlandsheralds.org/2009-01-lop/0902-lor.html). Submitter's previous change of device submission, Argent, semy of birch leaves vert, a great dane dog couchant sable, was returned on the same letter, stating: "The strewn charges were unidientifiable as leaves to the commenters. it is suggested that the submitter draw fewer of them, make them larger, and use less internal detailing. Otherwise, no conflicts were found at the time, this is merely returned for a redraw." This submission is a complete re-design.
9. Suleiman ibn Da'Ud ibn Sahl al-Qalqashandi. New Alternate Name for Jethro Stille.
(Hawk's Hollow) Gender: Male. Submitter cares most about the meaning of the name, which is undefined. Submitter will not accept major changes or the creation of a holding name.
Submitter's name was registered on the May 2002 LoAR (http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2002/05/02-05lar.html)
[Suleiman], [Da'Ud], [Sahl] - all are found in Period Arabic Names and Naming Practices by Da'ud Ibn Auda, http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/arabic-naming2.htm
[al-Qalqashandi] al-Qalqashandi was the nisba for Shihab al-Din abu 'l-Abbas Ahmad ben Ali ben Ahmad abd Allah al-Qalqashandi, a scholar and author who wrote the Subh al-a 'sha, a 14 volume encyclopedia completed in 1412. (Kahn, David The Codebreakers, Scribner, 1996, p.95)
Construction - according to Da'Ud ibn Auda, it was common to have an ism + two generation nasab + nisba (http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/arabic-naming2.htm). The submitted name uses Suleiman as the ism (given name), Da'Ud and Sahl as the two generation nasab (father and grandfather), and al-Qalqashandi as teh nisba (byname).
Thus ends the May 2009 Letter of