This letter has officially been written.

Last modified: October 9, 2004

Outlands College of Heralds

From the office of the Rampart Herald
Lady Alia Marie de Blois

Line Emblazon Sheet
Color Emblazon Sheet
July 2004 Letter of Presentation
August 2004 Letter of Response
August 2004 Letter of Intent
December 2004 LoAR Results
Return to the Rampart home page.

Unless otherwise specified, all changes are allowed by the submitter.

(Unless otherwise noted, all submittors will accept all changes, have no authenticity requests, and wish a name with the "common sense" gender, based on the submitted name.)

The following items were sent on to Laurel for a final determination:

  1. Brighid Óg inghean Néill. (al-Barran) Resubmitted Device (Laurel). Azure, a chevron inverted argent between three roses Or barbed and seeded proper.
    Submitted as three roses Or barbed vert, this did not describe the fact that it is also seeded gules. As barbed vert and seeded gules is the 'proper' detailing for a rose, we've changed the blazon to reflect that.
  2. Cerelle de Seyntlegger. (al-Barran) New Name.
  3. Dubheasa Eachinse. Resubmitted Device (Kingdom). Per pale argent and Or, a chevron inverted rompu and in chief a horse courant sable.
    There was some question as whether this is a 'chevron inverted rompu' or a 'chevron inverted fracted', but we'll let Wreath make the final determination.
  4. Fontaine dans Sable, Barony of. (Fontaine) Resubmitted Order Name (kingdom). Order of the Golden Palm.
    There was significant commentary pointing out that this is nearly identical to the Palme d'Or, an award given by the Cannes Film Festival, something that I had never even thought of. On the other hand, we do not usually do conflict by translation, so this is technically clear. On the gripping hand, there is prior precedent for returning names which are "overly evocative" of a protected Order Name. For example, "Order of the Laurel and the Rose" is overly evocative of both the Order of the Laurel and the Order of the Rose. Deciding whether or not this Order Name is overly evocative of the Palme d'Or is a remarkably subjective decision, and one which I am willing to let Laurel decide with the advice of the full College of Arms.
    If the Barony is not willing to take the chance, I can always withdraw it any time before December (but preferably sooner).
  5. Helga Tynker. (Drygestan) New Name. (see Returns for Device)
    Neither I nor any of the commentors were able to find Helga as an English name. The combination of Norse and English is considered unlikely, as most folks in period had a name which was entirely of a single culture, but is not a cause for return.
  6. Óengus Minogue. (Caer Galen) New Name and New Device. Vert, a sheaf of five stalks of wheat and a bordure wavy Or.
    Surnames of Ireland by MacLysaght (5th ed) on page 217 under the header (O) Minogue, gives (O) Minogue as an anglicized form of the Gaelic Ó Muineóg, and thus a more authentic form would be Óengus Ó Muineóg. However, as a drivers license with the Minogue spelling was given in addition to the citation from MacLysaght, I suspect that the Minogue spelling was slightly more important to the submittor. If not, I can make a correction if requested within the next month.
  7. Rose Mary Vethig. (al-Barran) New Name and New Device. Vert, in pale a compass star elongated to base argent and a dexter hand Or.
    The byname in a female name would be Veddyg, according to Tangwystyl's "A Simple Guide to Constructing 13th Century Welsh Names", which says "women will always use the mutated form of a nickname". Her 16th Century Guide gives the 16th Century spelling Methig, and Vethig would be the female formation of that.

The following items were returned for further work:

  1. Eachna Minogue. (Caer Galen) New Name and New Device. Azure, on a plate an oak tree proper.
    Unfortunately, Eachna is only found in there as part of the Finn-tales, which are considered to be legendary. Additionally, no other names documented as living humans were found in Irish sources that sounded similar. Therefore, this name must be returned for lack of documentation that Eachna referred to a living mortal human.
    This device is being returned for multiple conflicts, including Catrin of Llanbadern (Azure, on a plate a rowan tree proper all within a bordure engrailed argent) with only one CD for the addition of the bordure (a rowan tree proper vs. an oak tree proper, particularly as a tertiary, do not get any CDs at all). If resubmitting a similar device, I would strongly suggest checking for additional conflicts to be avoided, possibly posting the potential resubmission on the outlands-heralds email list for others to check as well.
  2. Elsbeth the Seer. (al-Barran) New Name.
    No documentation was provided or could be found for Elsbeth as a given name. While there are a number of variations of Elisabeth, this one wasn't found as a given name. Additionally, the byname "the seer" may give the impression that the submittor posesses supernatural powers (psychic ability). Rules for Submission VI.2. "Names Claiming Powers" says "Names containing elements that allude to powers that the submittor does not possess are considered presumptuous. Society names may not claim divine descent, superhuman abilities, or other powers that the submittor does not actually posess." Although this epithet could simply mean "one who sees", given the most common usage of this epithet, this name is likely to fall afoul of this rule.
  3. Helga Tynker. (Drygestan) New Device. Vert, a cauldron Or and on a chief argent five hearts gules.
    This device is being returned for conflict with Angharad Glas (Vert, a cauldron Or, on a chief argent, three penannular brooches inverted gules), with only one CD for the changes to the charges on the chief (three vs. five, brooches vs hearts). At this time, the following appears to be clear: Vert, a cauldron Or, on a bordure argent, five hearts gules.

The following items were pended:

  1. Fiorella von Sachsenhausen. New Name.
    Commentary suggests that the formation "Sachsenhausen" is unlikely in period. However, if the submittor can provide documentation showing that Gunther von Sachsenhausen is her legal husband (eg. photocopy of marriage license), she could apply the Grandfather Clause to register this byname.

Line Emblazon Sheet
Color Emblazon Sheet
July 2004 Letter of Presentation
August 2004 Letter of Response
August 2004 Letter of Intent
December 2004 LoAR Results
Return to the Rampart home page.