Last modified: July 8, 2004

Outlands College of Heralds

From the office of the Rampart Herald
Lady Alia Marie de Blois (Lillith Lesanges)
1223 Fruit Ave. NW, Albuquerque, NM 87102
alia@swcp.com - (505) 244-9525

UNTO the members of the College of Heralds of the Kingdom of the Outlands, and all others who generously give of their time and talents in commentary on this Letter of Presentation, upon this 20th day of August, A.S. XXXVIII (2003 CE), does Lady Alia Marie de Blois, Rampart Herald, send greetings and those commendations which are appropriately due. I would like to apologize for the delays in this Letter - between my personal computer problems and the computer virus keeping us busy at work, I was unable to work on this Letter for much longer than I had intended.

Anyone who wants to may send me a letter of comment regarding this Letter of Presentation. I prefer them via email.
Please have your commentary on this letter to me by mid-September.
NOTE: based on the commentary at this time regarding item 0 on the July LoP, I am hereby dropping the internal commentary period to one (1) month.
Please send commentary to: alia 'at' swcp.com or the address above.

Line Emblazon Sheet
Color Emblazon Sheet
September 2003 Letter of Response
September 2003 Letter of Intent
January 2004 LoAR Results
Return to the Rampart home page.

On behalf of Mistress Tatiana Pavlovna Sokolova, White Stag Principal Herald, I present the following items for your consideration:

(Unless otherwise noted, all submittors will accept all changes, have no authenticity requests, and wish a name with the "common sense" gender, based on the submitted name.)

  1. Fionn mac Dubhghaill mhic Cuill. (Caerthe) New name.
    This submittor submitted the name Fionn McDougal on the July Letter of Presentation, and then withdrew his submission. This is a reworking of the name.
    Fionn is found in O’Corrain and Maguire’s Irish Names on page100, under the header Finn. Dubhghaill is found in ibid. on page 79, under the header Dubgall. Cuill is taken from Woulfe's Sloinnte Gaedheal is Gall: Irish Names and Surnames, under the header Mac Cuill. This name is formed based on information in "Quick and Easy Gaelic Names" (http://www.medievalscotland.org/scotnames/quickgaelicbynames/#twogeneration), under the section "Two Generation Patronymic Byname", which gives the formation of the name as "{single given name} mac {father's given name (in genitive case and sometimes lenited)} mhic {grandfather's given name}".
    He will not accept major changes, cares most about the sound and language/culture, and is interested in authenticity for "9-12th Irish" time period and language/culture.
  2. Ivar MacGuiness. (Fontaine) New Name.
    Ivar is found in “Manx Christian Names” (http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Contrib/manx/famhist/kpn.htm), and is described as “Ivarr (Yngvarr), ‘young spring’, A name of two Mx. Knights, one of whom slew King Reginald II in a meadow near Kirk Christ, Rushen.” Irish Names by Ó Corrain & Maguire also lists an Ibor on page 116. MacGuiness is listed as a variant of Mag Aongusa, on page 74 of Irish Family Names by Kelly.
    He will not allow major changes, cares most about the sound, and is interested in a name authentic for “10th-16th Century Manx/Irish” language/culture.
  3. Ivar MacGuiness. (Fontaine) New Device. Per saltire purpure and sable, on a saltire invected Or a whip sable.
  4. Kaleriia Andronikov. (Caerthe) Change of Holding Name from Gail of the Outlands.
    All parts of this name are documented from “A Dictionary of Period Russian Names” (Online Edition, http://www.sca.org/heraldry/paul/) by Paul Wickenden of Thanet. Kaleriia is dated to the 13-14th Century. Andronikov is listed as a patronymic of Andronik, dated to the middle of the 15th Century.
    She will not allow major changes and cares most about the sound.
  5. Kristana Tancz. (Fontaine) New Name.
    Kristana is documented from “Medieval Latvian Given Names” (http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/latvian.html) by Aryanhwy merch Catmael, which dates this name to 1503. Tancz is found on page 500 of the Edda Gentry translation of Bahlow’s German Names, under the header Tanz, dated to 1295 and 1307.
    She will not allow major changes, cares most about the sound and is interested in a name authentic for “13-16th century Latvian/German”.
  6. Kristana Tancz. (Fontaine) New Device. Per bend sinister purpure and gules, a bend sinister Or, a decrescent Or and a spider sable.
    This device will be returned, as the black spider on the gules field is low contrast. Also, all of the charges on this device are a bit on the small side (though not returnably so on their own). The client is reportedly already working on a resubmission.
  7. Meadhbh Lasaifhiona an Chopain. (Fontaine) New Name.
    All parts of this name are documented from “Index of Names in Irish Annals” by Mari Elspeth nic Bryan (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/mari/AnnalsIndex/). Meadhbh is documented to 1577, Lasairfhiona is documented to 1527 and earlier, and an Chopain is dated to 1375.
    She will not allow major changes, cares most about the (unspecified) meaning, sound, and language/culture, and is interested in a name authentic for “16th century Irish” language/culture.
  8. Meadhbh Lasaifhiona an Chopain. (Fontaine) New Device. Per chevron embattled argent and azure, two trefoils vert and a threaded sewing needle Or.
    I had the hardest time trying to computer-color this one in, because the needle is drawn as solid black, and the color just has (effectively) fimbriation that is yellow. Is this redraw-worthy? I’m not sure. (Note, because of this difficulty, and my subsequent computer issues, I don't have a color copy available. Sorry.)
  9. Sergius Oppius Scaevola.(Caerthe?) New Name.
    Both Sergius and Oppius are documented from Livy, Early History of Rome (translation by Selincourt), pages 223 and 240 respectively. Sergius is mentioned as "Marcus Sergius" in the chapter on "Arbitrary Conduct of the Decemvirs". Oppius is mentioned as "Malius Oppius" in the chapter "Demand for Restoration of Tribunate". Scaevola is mentioned as "Mucius Scaevola" and is dated to approximately 130B.C.. Scaevola is documented from History of Rome by Cary and Scullard, on page 59.
    He will not accept major changes, cares most about the language/culture, and is interested in a name authentic for "1st century AD" time period and "Rome" language/culture.
  10. Sergius Oppius Scaevola. (Caerthe?) New Device. Sable, on a bezant two lightning bolts gules in saltire.
  11. Wolfgang Grothe zu Verron. (Caerthe) Name Resubmission (Laurel).
    The original name, Verron Wolfgang von Groth, was returned by Laurel in June of 1989. Wolfgang is documented from “Late Period German Masculine Given Names” by Talan Gwynek, which lists Wolf(gang) as having been one of the most frequent men’s names from 1501-1550. Goethe is documented from Brechenmacher’s “Etmologisches Wuutterbuch der Deutschen Familienneman” under the header Grot(h)e, Grodt, Grohte, dated to 1375.
    The client documents Verron by noting that the first submission return from Laurel says [sic] “… documentary ‘Verron’ as an acceptable varient form of a geographical name, which has now been done)." That doesn't tell us what that documentation for that is. This kind of thing is especially important when there is significant time elapsed between the original submission and the new one, since "prior registration is no guarantee of future registrability."
    He cares most about the sound and is interested in a name authentic for "German (High or Lowlands)" langauge/culture.
  12. Wolfgang Grothe zu Verron. (Caerthe) Device Resubmission (Laurel). Sable, a mullet of eight points between two scarpes Or.
    According to the form, "the rules have changed, and this device no longer conflicts" but doesn't say when or with whom it conflicted.
    Fortunately, I was able to find out that this device was returned by Laurel in June of 1989, which says: As for the device, the mullet as drawn is not really a mullet but a bezant engrailed. In any case the submission conflicts with Anastasia Vladimirovna ("Sable, two bendlets sinister Or, and in bend three mullets argent.").
  13. Zorya ze Praha. (Caerthe) New Name.
    No documentation was received for this submission. Aww, Bullwinkle, that trick never works.
    I vaguely recall that this was discussed on the SCA Heralds listserv, and I'll try to get that info and post it here.
    She will not allow minor or major changes, cares most about the (unspecified) meaning, sound, and language/culture, and is interested in having a name authentic for "12th century Slavic" language/culture.
  14. Zorya ze Praha. (Caerthe) New Device. Azure, a horse forcene between three pheons inverted argent.
    Anyone know what the current opinion on forcene is? My brain wants to tell me that there’s something weird about forcene, like ‘no longer registrable’ or ‘reblazon as rampant or leaping or something’, but I’m not sure what.

 

Line Emblazon Sheet
Color Emblazon Sheet
September 2003 Letter of Response
September 2003 Letter of Intent
January 2004 LoAR Results
Return to the Rampart home page.

Anyone who wants to may send me a letter of comment by e-mail regarding this Letter of Presentation.
Please have your commentary on this letter to me by mid-September. Please send commentary to: alia 'at' swcp.com