Last modified: November 11, 2003

Outlands College of Heralds

From the office of the Rampart Herald
Lady Alia Marie de Blois (Lillith Lesanges)
1223 Fruit Ave. NW, Albuquerque, NM 87102
alia@swcp.com - (505) 244-9525

Line Emblazon Sheet
Color Emblazon Sheet
May 2003 Letter of Presentation
July 2003 Letter of Intent
December 2003 LoAR Results (reschedule)
Return to the Rampart home page.

Thank you al-Jamal Herald (Master Da'ud), Musimon Herald (His Lordship Pendar), Lady Aryanhwy, and canute for your helpful commentary!

The following submissions were passed and sent on to Laurel.

  1. Aigiarn Aljin. New Name.
  2. Aigiarn Aljin. New Device. Gules, three crescents in pall inverted, horns to center, argent between three mullets of six points Or.
  3. Arimaris Maçon. New Name.
  4. Avram Ibn Gabirol. New Device. Vert, a shofar reversed bendwise sinister and a chief argent.
    Commentary on this device included this particularly helpful comment from Musimon:
    '"The Shofar is the ritual instrument of the ancient and modern Hebrews, the only Hebrew cultural instrument to have survived until now. Of martial origin, the shofar was a priestly instrument in Biblical times. According to the Mishna, two different forms of shofar were used in the Temple: one made of ibex horn, its bell ornamented with gold, was sounded at New Year and during the Yovel Days; one made of ram's horn, with silver ornamentation, was sounded on fast days." http://www.s-hamilton.k12.ia.us/antiqua/shofar.htm This would be the first instance of a shofar being registered in the SCA, but it is no more unusual than any other kind of animal horn. It is more likely to be blazoned as an ox horn, ibex horn, or ram's horn than a shofar, but I'd still submit it that way with any documentation that you find to be reasonable.'
    I was able to determine that shofars have been registered three times previously in the SCA, most recently in 1995. However, without having seen any of the emblazons of those shofars, I have asked the College of Arms (in the Letter of Intent) if this a reasonable depiction, or should be reblazoned as a ram's horn due to the lack of ornamentation?
  5. Avram Ibn Gabirol and Hannah de Ávila. New Joint Badge. Argent, a python vert within a bordure embattled sable.
    It should be noted that the bordure should be drawn a little thicker.
  6. Ceara McCain. New Device. Quarterly vert and gules, a hound statant coward within a bordure embattled Or.
    Submitted as Quarterly vert and gules, a hound statant within a bordure embattled Or, "coward" was added in to indicate the location of the hound's tail based on commentary, lest someone get confused about either the location of the tail or what was poking out there where the tail actually is. It should be noted that the bordure should be drawn a little thicker.
  7. Gervais le marinier de Narbonne. Device Resubmission (Laurel). Checky sable and Or, on a pile wavy fesswise issuant from sinister gules, a greyhound courant Or.
    As noted by multiple commentors, this greyhound is courant (the heraldic term) , not coursing. One of them also notes that this pile is fesswise, to explicitly say which direction it points after it issues from sinister.
  8. Giovanni da Luca. New Name.
    ‘Di’ was changed to the proper locative particle ‘da’ based on commentary from Aryanhwy. At the very least, it should not be capitalized. Without a page number, and without a way to determine if this was a modern form of the place name, I was slightly worried about this locative byname. However, I was able to document Luca as a place name from “Mercator’s Place Names of Italy in 1554” (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/maridonna/mercator/north.html) by Mariadonna Benvenuti (Andrea Hicks), in the ‘Northern Italy’ section, which says that Luca is a Town/city which is modernly known as Lucca. Based on this documentation and commentary, I changed the name to "Giovanni da Luca".
  9. Giovanni da Luca. New Device. Per pale azure and argent, in fess a tower and a spider counterchanged, a chief counter-compony azure and argent.
    Originally Per pale azure and argent, in fess a tower and a spider, a chief counter-compony, all counterchanged, al-Jamal and Musimon and canute gently reminded me that the chief could not be counterchanged, but needed to be specified as azure and argent, thus denying my deep-seated favoritism towards counterchanging.
  10. Hannah de Ávila. New Device. Azure, a roundel argent between in pale a crescent pendant and a crescent, .
    Submitted as Azure, in pale between a crescent and a decrescent, a roundel argent, various commentors reminded me that, no matter what, we blazon the centralmost charge first and straightened me out on which types of crescents these are. This is purely a change in the wording to describe it, not in the actual image.
  11. Illaria Truue. New Name.
    Listed on the Letter of Presentation as ‘Illasia’, this was due to my poor reading of the handwriting on the form, which really does say ‘Illaria’. This is a very nice and temporally consistent name. Well done!
  12. Ivarr ffening. New Name.
    As Aryanhwy notes: 'Given that he has an English byname, this is not authentic for Old Norse. Norse/English combinations are a weirdness, per the 01/02 LoAR.' However, this should not be a bar to registration, merely to authenticity.
  13. Leofwin de Meslach. New Name.
    Based on commentary, "De" was changed to "de" as the locative particle would not have been capitalized.
  14. Leofwin de Meslach. New Device. Per chevron gules and argent, two oak trees eradicated and a gemstone counterchanged.
  15. Natalia Vasilkovna Riazanskaia. New Device. Vert, in bend a phoenix Or rising from flames gules and a natural tiger, tail nowed, argent marked sable.
    Submitted as "tail nowed in a Stafford knot," al-Jamal notes that it is simply "nowed" or knotted, making it most likely just an artistic detail, and therefore not blazoned.
  16. Renee Nix de Livingstone. New Name.
  17. Renee Nix de Livingstone. New Device. Ermine, a chevron inverted purpure between a phoenix rising from flames and a cross formy gules.
  18. Séaghnait inghean Dhonnchaidh. New Name.
    Séaghnait is a female Irish gaelic name found on page 164 of Ó Corráin & Maguire's Irish Names under the heading Ségnat, which mentions that “Ségnat was the abbess whom St. Abbán placed in charge of his foundations in Meath”, but does not date this variant. Dhonnchaidh is a Gaelic family name (MacDhonnchaidh, "Son of Duncan") found on pages 474-5 of Black's Surnames of Scotland, under the heading MacConachie. Submitted as “Séaghnait Dhonnchaidh”, it was changed to this form with ‘inghean’ based on commentary that there were no unmarked patronymics in Gaelic.
  19. Séaghnait Dhonnchaidh. New Device. Per chevron inverted vert and argent.
    This device appears to be free of conflict at this time, however it was discovered in commentary that "Per chevron inverted" is not listed in the Rules for Submission X.4.a.ii.c., which lists the field divisions which are automatically different from each other (in field-primary armory such as this one). Given the other items in the list, this seems like it might have been an oversight, and I have requested that Laurel address this issue. This should not affect this submission, but may make a difference for future submissions.
    By the way, nice armory!
  20. Ulrik Halvarson. New Name.

The following submissions were returned:

  1. Bridget inghean ui Neill. New Name.
    Client cares most about the Sound of this name, doesn't care about the gender, and has no authenticity requests.
    Bridget is found in Reaney & Wilson's Dictionary of English & Welsh Surnames, 2nd ed., page 405, under the heading Hudd, dated to 1545. inghean ui is 'daughter', and Neill is found in MacLysaght's The Surnames of Ireland, on page 234, under the heading Neill.
    Commentary on this item included the following from Aryanhwy:
    'This would be much better as the fully Gaelic {Brighid inghean uí Neill}, but since she didn't ask for authenticity, there's no reason to change this. Except, however, this conflicts with Brigit O' Néill (reg. 12/91 via Atlantia), just as {Ealasaid inghean uí Domhnaill} conflicts with {Elzasif O'Donnell} (see 02/02 LoAR). '
    The 02/2002 LOAR has the following to say for itself on the matter:
    'Ealasaid ihghean uí Domhnaill. Name. This name was originally submitted as Ealasaid inghen Domhnaill and changed at kingdom with the submitter's approval to avoid a conflict with Ealasaid MacDonald (registered February 1994). Under the current precedents, the conflict spotted by kingdom was correct and the change made by kingdom did clear that conflict. Unfortunately, it brought the name into conflict with Elzasif O'Donnell (registered March 1986). Her file shows that Elzasif was submitted as a Norse variant of Elizabeth. As Ealasaid is also a variant of Elizabeth, these two elements conflict. Since O'Donnell conflicts with inghean uí Domhnaill, these two names conflict.'
    Unfortunately, I must concur with Aryanhwy's conclusion that Bridget and Brigit are equivalent and that the O' {name} and the inghean ui {name} forms are equivalent and thus this name does conflict. To clear this conflict, either some part of the name must be changed, or a new name part added. I don't have any immediate suggestions on how to clear this conflict, other than suggesting a look at "Quick and Easy Gaelic Names" (http://www.medievalscotland.org/scotnames/quickgaelicbynames/), which may offer some suggestions on other bynames or the formation of a complex byname.
  2. Elaisse de Garrigues. Device Resubmission (Kingdom). Azure chaussé erminois, an oak tree eradicated argent, leaved Or.
    Her name was registered on the June 2002 LOAR, via the Outlands. Her previous submission, Azure chaussé Or, an oak tree eradicated argent, was returned by Rampart in November of 2002 for conflict with Ioseph of Locksley, the Rhymer - January of 1973: Vert, a tree eradicated argent.
    Unfortunately, this must be again returned for conflict, as noted by Musimon:
    'Although the blazon says this is "leaved Or", the color emblazon shows the tree being entirely argent. [Rampart: this was a computer coloring issue on my side that I have fixed.] Since chausse is a field division, that makes this basically ", a tree argent." which conflicts with the ancient SCA arms of Ioseph of Locksley, the Rhymer (1/73), Vert, a tree eradicated argent. with only 1 CD for changes to the field. If the leaves really were "Or", they would be considered to be more than half the tincture of the charge making this basically ", a tree Or", which conflicts with Brianne Hyla (7/84 via Ansteorra), Per chevron Or and vert, in base a maple tree couped Or. There is one CD for changes to the field, but since placing Brianne's tree in base is a forced move, there is not a CD for its placement on the field. Lest we think that Elaisse's tree is half Or and half argent, several precedents have already established that we don't give a CD for changing only the tincture of the trunk, one of the most recent being: [Per fess argent and vert, an oak tree eradicated counterchanged] This is clear of ... Per fess argent and azure, a tree Or leaved vert. While it is true that changing just the trunk of a tree does not normally generate difference, the tincture of Arthur's tree is per fess vert and argent, i.e., 1/2 vert and 1/2 argent; therefore there is a CD for change of tincture of at least 1/2 the charge. [Arthur Watson, 06/00, A-East] That precedent inspires a good idea, though, since it establishes that "a tree per fess Or and argent" is not the same as "a tree argent leaved Or" or "a tree Or trunked argent". (as in Or semy of decrescents azure, an oak tree vert trunked sable. (Rhiannon Boyle, LoAR 10/02, An Tir)) "Azure chausse erminois, an oak tree eradicated per fess Or and argent." has no conflicts through 01/03."'
    In short, with this field division, a tree that is either argent or Or (determined by the color of the leaves) will have conflict. Using the suggestion to divide the tree per fess Or and argent, it should be kept in mind that in the top portion, both the branches and the leaves should be Or. Also, I would typically expect an oak tree to have quite a bit more leaves, like the one in the Pictoral Dictionary.
  3. Michelet des Chevaux. New Name.
    Client will not accept Major changes. Client cares most about the language/culture, wishes a female name, and is interested being authentic for the language/culture "14th Century French".
    Michelet is documented from 'An Index to the Given Names in the 1292 Census of Paris' by Colm Dubh (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/paris.html) and 'des Chevaux' is described as "is modern french for 'of the horses', was unable to locate old french translation".
    Unfortunately, a modern French translation is unlikely to be a suitable byname; beyond the differences between modern and medieval French, it does not guarantee a byname that is compatible with period French byname practices. The most useful commentary on this device came from Aryanhwy, who pointed out the following two reports from the Academy of St. Gabriel, Report #2355 (http://www.s-gabriel.org/2355), which discusses bynames related to horses that would be appropriate for southern France, and Report #1371 (http://www.s-gabriel.org/1371), which discusses other bynames that would be appropriate for French, as opposed to Occitan.
    You might also want to look through the various French name resources listed in the Medieval Names Archive (http://www.panix.com/~mittle/names/french.shtml). Particuarly, you may want to consider "Occupational By-Names in the 1292 Tax Role of Paris" (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/parisbynames.html), which is based on the same data as you used for your given name. This list seems to include a few horse-related names, with meanings such as "horse broker" and "saddler".
    Since any of those suggestions would almost certainly be a major change (not to mention the difficulty in picking the "best" one for you), I am returning this name. I suggest that you (with your local herald, if possible) review the suggested resources and choose a period byname to go with the given name.
  4. Suleymahn L'Hilt. New Name.
    Client cares most about the Sound, does not care about the gender of the name, and is interested in being authentic for "1400's".
    This name has three major issues, as noted by multiple commentors. First and most minor, Suleymahn was documented as a variant phonetic spelling (aka transliteration) of Soloman/Suliman/Suleyman. However, all of the commentary suggests that a spelling with 'h' is not a reasonable transliteration. Sticking with 'Suleiman', 'Sulayman', or 'Suleyman' would be fairly reasonable, and I would have simply changed it (as it would not affect the sound significantly), except for the other issues.
    Second, combining an Arabic given name and a French byname may not be acceptable. While there is no direct precedent on this issue, combining Arabic with Norse and (separately) with Swiss have both been ruled unacceptable and not registrable. There does not, in period, seem to have been more contact between the Arabs and the French than there would have been between the Arabs and either the Norse or the Swiss. I might have sent this up for Laurel to make a determination on, except for the third issue.
    Third and most signifcantly, while "L'Hilt" is a French term for an owl, it is not necessarily suitable as a byname in French. Essentially, it makes this name "Suleyman the Owl", which doesn't make much sense as a name. Epithet style bynames tended to be reasonable descriptors of the individual, such as "the tall" or "the red(-haired)" or "crookshanks" or "the good", and would be a physical or behavioral type of description instead of metaphorical or figurative.

    I do have one suggestion of an alternate byname. In the name book written by Dauzat (one of the current standard French name books for SCA heralds, so no photocopy is needed), on page 334 there is the heading "Huleux" (approximately "Hoo-loo"), which is described as "sobriquet d'apres le cri du hibou" (rough translation: "a nickname or epithet after the cry of an owl"), and also lists the forms "Hulet", "Hulin", "Hulot" under that header. However, this suggestion does not address the issue of combining an Arabic given name and a French byname.
    Fortunately, I also have two suggestions on the given name! Looking in "An Index to the Given Names in the 1292 Census of Paris" (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/paris.html#S) by Lord Colm Dubh, I found one "Salemon le Breton, mesuréeur de sel". This would still be a male name, and be pronounced (approximately) "Sah-lay-mon". This source also has the benefit of not requiring photocopies.
    Also, looking in "Flemish Given Names from Bruges, 1400-1600" (http://www.s-gabriel.org/docs/bruges/given-list.html) by Luana de Grood, I found the name "Salomon", which may be closer in both pronunciation and time to what you wanted. Again, this is still a male name. This source does require photocopies/printouts.
    As French names are not my specialty, I won't pretend to certainty, but "Salemon Huleux", "Salomon Huleux", "Salemon Hulot", or "Salomon Hulot" should be acceptable, fully French names.

The following submission was pended:

  1. Suleymahn L'Hilt. New Device. Sable, an owl and in chief a mullet of four points, all within a bordure potenty argent.
    This device is pended, waiting for an acceptable name. When there is an acceptable name, I will send this device up with it.

Line Emblazon Sheet
Color Emblazon Sheet
May 2003 Letter of Presentation
July 2003 Letter of Intent
December 2003 LoAR Results (reschedule)
Return to the Rampart home page.