Outlands College of Heralds

28 May 2005

From the Office of White Stag Principal Herald
Lady Sorcha MacLeod (Tammy Ackerson)


UNTO Elisabeth de Rossingol, Laurel Queen of Arms, Margaret MacDuibhshithe, Pelican Queen of Arms, Gwenllian ferch Maredudd, Wreath Queen of Arms, and the College of Arms, upon this 28th day of May 2005, A.S. XXXX (2005 CE), does Lady Sorcha MacLeod, White Stag Principal Herald, send greetings.

Unless otherwise noted, submitters accept all changes, desire a name with the common sense gender, and have no requests for authenticity. Nota bene: I have a new phone number, listed above, and already submitted for a roster update.

1- Katrine van Deventer. New Badge. Per chevron ployé purpure and argent, a mullet of eight points issuant.

Her name was registered in May 2003.

This submission is an appeal of a return in kingdom for conflict.  The original return (May 2004 Letter of Response: http://rampart.outlandsheralds.org/2004-04-lop/0405-lor.html) reads:

This device is being returned for conflict with Katya Anna Sylvan, Per chevron throughout purpure and argent, two compass stars argent and a fox sejant gules, with only one CD for the change in number of the primary charge group (1 vs 3), and Rivenstar, Barony of, Azure, a riven star argent, with only one CD for changing the field (azure vs per chevron purpure and argent).

The appeal, written by Lord Pendar the Bard, reads:

The device of Pendar the Bard, registered in December 2002, which was used as a basis for this badge is: Per chevron ployé Or and azure, a demi-fleur-de-lys issuant from the line of division azure.

http://www.wombatinfestation.org/rampart/2002-06-lop/pendar2.gif If the same logic that was applied to Katrine's return was applied to Pendar’s, then it would have been returned for conflict with Elwyn of Snow Hill (8/79): Per chevron azure, ermined argent, and argent, in base a fleur-de-lis azure. With only 1 CD for changes to the field (since the move to base of the fleur in Elwyn's device is forced). We'd like to see a Laurel precedent set regarding this type of armory. Is it a charge on a field? If so, is the part of the field that it shares a tincture with considered to be part of the charge? Is it a unique complex line of division? If it is a complex line of division, would that make it field primary armory?

White Stag notes that applying the same logic to Pendar's device vs. Elwyn's, there is a CD for changes to the field, and there should be another for the difference between a fleur-de-lys and a demi-fleur-de-lys:

[a jester's cap vs. a jester's hood] [There is a CD] for the difference between a jester's cap and a jester's hood; the latter has the fabric which would normally extend down over the shoulders and well onto the chest, with large dags, and a hole in the front for the face to show through.  It was the consensus of those at the Laurel meeting that the difference was visually equivalent to the difference between a lion and a demi-lion, for which we also grant a CD.  (Gautier d'Isigny-sur-Mer, 8/94 p. 3)

While some may argue that there is no such difference between the two based on the return of Elspeth Fitzwilliam's device on the Dec99 LoAR, the return indicates that it was the manner in which the fleurs were drawn that brought in the conflict, and not the actual difference between fleurs and demi-fleurs:

This also conflicts with Alienor Beatrice Lucrezia (SCA) Azure, four fleurs-de-lys in cross bases to center argent., with one CD for arrangement, but nothing for the difference between the demi fleurs-de-lys and the complete fleurs-de-lys as drawn.

2- Lyonnete la Rousse.  New Badge.  Azure, a chimera statant to sinister Or within a bordure lozengy sable and argent.

Name registered Jun02 via the West.

3- Murchadh Mac Diarmada. Withdraw Device. Per pale Or and sable, a cross formy throughout counterchanged. The submitter wishes to withdraw this device, originally appearing on the Outlands March 2005 Letter of Intent.

4- Murchadh MacDiarmada. Device Resubmission. Per pale sable and Or, a cross formy throughout counterchanged.

This name appeared on the Outlands March 2005 Letter of Intent, along with the device in number 3 above, now withdrawn. The submitter has obtained a Letter of Permission to Conflict from Dafydd Morrison Per pale sable and Or, a cross of Santiago counterchanged Feb02 via the Outlands.

5- Rab Wylkyn. New Name.

Rab is found in Withycombe, pg 254 under Robert as an undated nickname in Scotland and IrelandWylkyn is found in Bardsley pg 814 under Wilkin dated citation "Matilda Wylkyn", daughter, 1379:  P.T. Yorks. Pg 175.

6- Sile O' Daragh. New Name.

Sile is found in OC&M, pg 165.  Gaelic form of Caecilia brought into Ireland by the Anglo-Normans.  O' Daragh is found in Woulfe, pg 494 listed under O'Dara.  I thought that the Rampart library contained Woulfe, but I do not find it on the shelf at the time of this writing - any assistance from the CoA on what the entry actually says would be gratefully received.

If the name must be changed, submitter cares more about the language/culture.  The desired gender of the name is feminine.

Thus ends my Letter of Intent.  I count 2 new names, and 2 new badges, for a total of 4 items requiring payment to Laurel, and 1 device withdrawal, and 1 device resubmission.  A check for $16 will be sent separately.


In service and duty,

Sorcha, White Stag