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Last modified: January 27, 2004


Outlands College of Heralds

From the office of the Rampart Herald Lady Alia Marie de Blois rampart@outlandsheralds.org

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Color Emblazon Sheet
December 2003 Letter of Presentation
January 2004 Letter of Response
January 2004 Letter of Intent
May 2004 LoAR Results
Return to the Rampart home page.

Commentary was provided by: Master Da'ud, al-Jamal Herald; Lady Aryanhwy merch Catmael; knute; Gawain, Green Anchor Herald. Thank you all.

Present at the Rampart Decision Meeting: Alia Marie de Blois, Rampart Herald; Anne Aliz de Basle; Charles Robert Blackstone.

(Unless otherwise noted, all submittors will accept all changes, have no authenticity requests, and wish a name with the "common sense" gender, based on the submitted name.)

The following submissions were sent on to Laurel and the College of Arms for final decisions:

  1. Charles Robert Blackstone. New Badge. (Fieldless) A cross raguly couped gyronny sable and Or.
    Since the default for crosses is throughout and this is a fieldless badge, I changed the blazon to specify that it is couped.
  2. Dulcia de Léon. New Name and New Device. Azure, a chevron rompu inverted between a decrescent and three dragonflies argent.
    Dulcia is found "Feminine Given Names in A Dictionary of English Surnames" by Talan Gwynek (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/reaneyAG.html) under the header Douce, dated to 1275 as a Latinized form. de Léon is a Spanish locative meaning "from Léon", as found in "Spanish Names from the Late 15th Century" by Juliana de Luna (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/isabella/locative.html) (although without the accent). I'm sure someone's got a handy source for this location closer to 1275. There was some commentary about a purely Spanish form of the name, but as the submittor did not request authenticity, I left it alone.
    She cares most about the sound.
  3. Geoffrey fitz Robert. New Badge. (Fieldless) A compass star quarterly azure and gules.
  4. Gwydion ap Llewelyn. Resubmitted Name and Unpended Device. Vert, a dragon passant Or, on a chief Or, three triskeles vert.
    The name is here documented from CA #66, A Welsh Miscellany, which lists both Gwydion and Llywelyn as men's given names. Additionally, Llewelyn is found in "A Simple Guide to Constructing 16th Century Welsh Names (in English Contexts)" by Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/tangwystyl/welsh16.html).
    Submitted as Vert, a dragon passant Or, armed and langued gules, on a chief Or, three triskeles vert, arming and languing is not usually noted, especially when they are the default gules.
    He cares most about the language/culture, and is interested in authenticity for "Wales, circa 1280" language/culture.
  5. Magdalena Flores. Resubmitted Name and Unpended Device. Ermine, on an egg gules, a fleur-de-lys Or.
    All parts of this name are documented from Juliana de Luna's "Spanish Names from the Late 15th Century" at: http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juliana/isabella/ Magdelena is documented from the section on Women's Given names ( WomensGivenNames.html ). Flores is documented from the section on "other" surnames ( OtherSurnames.html ), meaning "Flowers".
    She cares most about the language/culture, and is interested in authenticity for "late period Spain".

The following submissions were returned to the submittor for further work:

  1. Caer Galen, Barony of. Heraldic Title. Rayonny Pursuivant.
    Unfortunately, as the Rules for Submissions, section III.2.b.iii. say:

    iii. Heraldic Titles - Heraldic titles must follow the patterns of period heraldic titles.
    These are generally drawn from surnames (Chandos Herald, Percy Herald), place-names (Windsor Herald, Calais Pursuivant, Sicily Herald), names of heraldic charges (Crosslet Herald, Estoile Volant Pursuivant, Noir Lyon Pursuivant), names of orders of chivalry (Garter King of Arms), and mottos (Ich Dien Pursuivant, Esperance Pursuivant).

    As lovely as I feel this heraldic title is, the sad fact remains that "Rayonny" is a fancy kind of line treatment, and not a charge as such. As one commentor put it, "I am aware of no heraldic titles taken from a live of division (Per Fess Pursuivant? Indented Herald? Dovetailed King of Arms?)".
    You might consider Golden Harp Pursuivant or Chapeau Pursuivant (to refer to the Doge's hat). Some sillier suggestions include Peg Pursuivant (Peg is a dated surname in R&W, header Pegg) and Furlong Pursuivant (Furlong is a dated surname in R&W, header Furlong). Just remember that you have options in foreign languages, and, if you use an odd heraldic charge, you may need to show that it was actually a heraldic charge in period.

  2. Rhiannon ferch Fychen. Resubmitted Name and Resubmitted Device. Or, an oak tree eradiated vert and on a chief azure, a dove Or.
    I'm not sure that I can summarize properly, so it may be best to quote the most applicable commentary in full:

    [Fychen] is not a given name; in the documented instance cited it is being used as a descriptive byname. Tangwystyl's 13th C Simple Guide (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/tangwystyl/welsh13.html) gives [Vachan] as the mutated form of [Bychan] 'small, junior'. [Fychen] (or [Fychan]) is the modern mutated form of this word. The article says that men usually use the mutated form, and men almost always do.
    Since she wants a 13th Century name, we should go with 13th C spellings, e.g. [Vachan] and [verch].
    Since [Fychan] isn't a given name, she can't be [ferch Fychan] without modification. Two registrable fixes include [Rhiannon Vachan] 'Rhiannon the small' and [Rhiannon verch y Vachan] 'Rhiannon daughter of the small'. I believe the construction of a patronymic based on the byname and not the given name of the father can be documented in Compleat Anachronist #66 , but I'm not at home so I can't say for sure.

    For reference, CA #66 is subtitled A Welsh Miscellany, but I did not see anything in there in a quick glance that supports the formation of a patronymic based on the byname and not the given name. However, in "A Simple Guide to Constructing 16th Century Welsh Names (in English Contexts)" by Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/tangwystyl/welsh16.html), at the end it mentions, "A woman of this period in Wales might bear a true patronym (i.e., using her father's name), or might inherit something that looks like a patronym as a fixed surname, or might inherit a non- patronymic surname, or might have a personal nickname." This would be, of course, later than the desired time period. Of course, it should be noted that the given name Rhiannon is not a period name, even though it has been ruled as "SCA Compatible", so this name can't be made completely authentic anyway.
    The device has Issues. [Insert some more stuff here.]
    She cares most about the language/culture, and is interested in authenticity for "Wales, circa 1280" language/culture.

The following submissions were pended (awaiting a suitable name to go with):

None!

Line Emblazon Sheet
Color Emblazon Sheet
December 2003 Letter of Presentation
January 2004 Letter of Response
January 2004 Letter of Intent
May 2004 LoAR Results
Return to the Rampart home page.