Last modified: July 8, 2004


Outlands College of Heralds

From the office of the Rampart Herald
Lady Alia Marie de Blois
rampart@outlandsheralds.org

UNTO the members of the College of Heralds of the Kingdom of the Outlands, and all others who generously give of their time and talents in commentary on this Letter of Presentation, upon this 19th day of March, A.S. XXXVII (2003 CE), does Lady Alia Marie de Blois, Rampart Herald, send greetings and those commendations which are appropriately due.

Anyone who wants to may send me a letter of comment regarding this Letter of Presentation. I prefer them via email.
Please have your commentary on this letter to me by the end of April. Please send commentary to: alia 'at' swcp.com or the address above.

On behalf of Mistress Tatiana Pavlovna Sokolova, White Stag Principal Herald,
I present the following items for your consideration:

Line Emblazon Sheet
Color Emblazon Sheet
May 2003 Letter of Response
May 2003 Letter of Intent
September 2003 LoAR Results
Return to the Rampart home page.

Unless otherwise specified, all changes are allowed by the submitter.

  1. Constance Warrock de Winandemere. (Citadel) Device Resubmission (Laurel). Argent, two roses azure seeded Or and on a point entée fleury azure, a cross patonce argent.
    Her name was registered on the August 2002 LOAR. Her previous device submission, Per chevron argent and azure, two roses azure seeded Or and a cross patonce argent, was returned by Laurel in August 2002, for conflict with Roxanne of Anglesey, Per chevron argent and azure, three primroses, one and two, azure, and a candle argent, enflamed and resting in a holder Or. This resubmission attempts to avoid this conflict by reblazoning the lower portion of the per chevron field as 'a point entée fleury'.
    With both of the forms in front of me, it is clear that the images are identical except for the addition of a relatively small demi-fleur-de-lys to the per chevron line, and as such is clearly not a point (nor a point entée). A point entée should be significantly smaller. Alternately, the demi-fleur should be a lot more noticible. I have spoken with the client about this and hope to see new forms before this comes up for a decision. I'd definitely appreciate conflict checks against the potential blazon Per chevron argent and azure, between two roses azure seeded Or and a cross patonce argent, a fleur-de-lys issuant from the line of division azure.
  2. Eric Eldonson. (al-Barran) New Name and Device. Argent, a chevron between two compass stars vert and an anchor sable.
    Eric: No documenation was provided. However, this name can be found in Withycombe's Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names (3rd edition) on page 105, which lists it as a modern name. The spelling Erik is found in the "Finnish Name Article" by Rouva Gertrud (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/FinnishNamesArticle.htm) which says about this name: "Erik Skynnare 1432, FMU III 2047.Eerich Andersson 1482, FMU V 3902. A very popular name."
    Eldonson: No documentation was provided. Reaney & Wilson's Dictionary of English Surnames (rev. 3rd edition, paperback) on page152, under the header "Eldin, Eldon", says " ... From Elveden (Sf), or Eldon (Du)." I think that's implying that Eldon is Dutch, but there's obviously no date, nor was I able to find any documentation to back that up. The spelling Elden is dated both to 1561 and and 1596. In either case, I'm not sure that the construction Eldonson is supportable (I'd expect Eldonsson, even if I could document Eldon as a given name).
    He will not accept major changes, cares most about the language/culture, and wishes to have a male name authentic for language/culture "11-13th Cent. Scandinavian".
  3. Gormlaith Ó'Néill. (al-Barran) New Name and Device. Per bend sinister Or and argent, a bend sinister purpure between a heart and three gouttes gules.
    Gormlaith: This is found in Irish Names by O'Corrain & Maguire on page 114, "Gormlaith, daughter of the King of Leinster, wife Brian Boru and mother of Sitric, king of Dublin who died in 1030."
    Ó'Néill ({O'}'N{e'}ill): This is found in MacLysaght on page 241, "Down to the time of Brian Boru, who reigned from 1002 to 1014, the Ui Néill, i.e. descendents of Niall of the Nine Hostages, were, almost without interruption, High Kings of Ireland.
    This client prefers a female name and will not allow any changes, but will allow a holding name.
  4. Ileana Welgy. (al-Barran) Device Resubmission (Laurel). Argent, a moor's arm embowed proper upon a trimount vert, on a chief azure three crescents argent.
    Her name was registered in August 1998 via the Outlands. Her previous device submission, Azure, a cubit arm proper issuant from a trimount vert braced of a comital coronet Or jewelled gules, maintaining a crescent between two crescents argent, was returned on the November 2002 LOAR for various issues regarding simplicity, similiarity to the known examples of armory utilizing blue fields with green trimounts, and contrast issues between the coronet and the arm. This is a significant redesign, which neatly avoids the whole issue of regional style by using an argent field with the green trimount. Per the December 2002 LOAR, the Moor (and by inference a Moor's arm) is dark brown, and thus classified as a color, so it has good contrast with the field.
    Please excuse the quickly computer-colored color drawing. That's my doing.
  5. Lin Shiao Mei. (al-Barran) New Name and Device. Gules, a phoenix, on a chief triangular argent, a cinquefoil purpure.
    Lin: This is the client's modern surname; a photocopy of her birth certificate was provided. She also provided a printout of "Chinese Personal Names" (http://weber.ucsd.edu/~dkjordan/chin/hbnames-u.html) which says that putting the family name at the beginning is correct (although it does not state when the time period that was done, my impression is that the ordering of names in China has not changed for quite a long ways back into our period of study.).
    Shaio Mei: According to the client, this name means "Little Plum Blossom". Mei is part of her modern name as "Yun-Mei" (also on said birth certificate) which she says means "Song of the Plum Blossom". She provided a printout of "Chinese Character Flashcards" (http://www.mandarintools.com/flashcard.html), which shows the character for "shiao" and gives the meaning in English as "small, tiny, insignificant".
    She will not accept major or minor changes, cares most about the language/culture and meaning (which she says is: "Little Plum Blossom" from the family "Lin"), and wishes a female name authentic for the language/culture "Chinese".
  6. Llywus ap Alan. (al-Barran/Drygestan) Name and Device Resubmission (Laurel). Argent, a panther sejant sable, on a chief vert three candles argent enflamed Or.
    The original name, Llywus ap Alun, and original device submission, Argent, a mountain lion sejant proper, on a chief vert three candles argent, enflamed proper (Felis concolor), submission was returned by Laurel in March 1987 (no, not a typo), the name for insufficient reliable documentation for the given name Llywus, and the device for having a brown mountain lion when a 'proper' one would be Or and thus have poor contrast with the argent field. The submitter consulted with Herald's Point at Estrella War and this resubmission addresses these issues.
    Llywus: the submitter's legal middle name. He enclosed a copy of his legal name change documents.
    ap Alan: ap is fairly common Welsh for 'son of'. Alan is documented in Reaney and Wilson, on page 7.
    He will not accept major changes to his name, and wishes a male name authentic for "12th-14th century Welsh" time period and language/culture. If this spelling of the given name is not registrable, the submitter will accept "Llwys", which is listed in Morgan & Morgan on page 149.
    The odd line across the chief is from folding the paper to fit it in the envelope. The colors appear to be printed with a laser printer or some kind of glossy ink; the submitter told me (on the phone, while getting my address to submit this, as he has no local herald) that he had access to an archival-quality printer. The line drawing appears to be a grey-scale of the color drawing.
  7. Morris Ó Fiaich. (Drygestan) New Device. Checky azure and argent, on a bend argent fimbriated sable, three hearts gules.
    His name was registered on the October 1999 LOAR.
  8. Nikolaus von Stahburg. (Citadel) New Name and Device.Per chevron throughout vert and sable, a chevron throughout between three rams heads affronty cabossed argent horned Or.
    Nikolaus: This name is found in A Dictionary of German Names by Bahlow (translation by Edda Gentry, second edition) on page 346, under the heading Nick(el), which says "Saint Nikolaus was the patron sain of mariners and ship captains, seafaring merchants, and children (saint's day Dec. 6!); next to Johann(es) and Petrus, N. was the most req. f.n. in the Middle Ages. This spelling is also found in http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/germmasc.html "Late Period German Masculine Given Names" by Talan Gwynek, with 615 instances between 1501 and 1550.
    von Stahburg: I don't seem to have any documentation for this in any of my easily available sources.
    The client prefers a male name, authentic for unspecified language/culture, and will not allow any changes, nor the creation of a holding name.
  9. Outlands, Kingdom of the. (Outlands) New Heraldic Title. Stag's Attire Herald.
    This is a sparkly new Heraldic title intended for the use of an external commenter in the College of Arms. It is based on the heraldry of the kingdom, to wit, the attires of the stag prominently featured on the king's arms. Attire is found in reference to the horns of a deer as early as the late 1500's in the Oxford English Dictionary.
  10. Tavia of Persia. Device Resubmission (Laurel). Azure, a simurgh close Or.
    Her name was registered on the May 2002 LOAR. Her previous device submission, Azure, a simurgh close argent, was returned by Laurel on the same Letter for conflict with Winifred Yseult of Hall's Isle, Azure, in pale a peacock passant close between two roses all argent, and with Morgaina Sarai la Foncée, Sable, a peacock close maintaining in its beak a lotus with seedpod argent, slipped and leaved vert. This resubmission addresses the return by changing the tincture of the simurgh to Or.
  11. Törägänä Al'altun. (Citadel) Name and Device Resubmission (Laurel). Azure, a peacock feather between in fess a hand of Fatima bendwise and another bendwise sinister.
    Her previous name submission, Törägänä Al'altun-Baki Khanzade, and previous device submission, Azure, a tanit between in fess a hand of Fatima bendwise and another bendwise sinister all between the arabic words "laha badraar" and "fahalayimiska" Or, were returned on the April 1999 LOAR for the technical reason of missing name forms. Laurel at that time also warned that the name has serious issues (to paraphrase poorly: Baki is a title, and so should not be used; Mongols didn't use three part names; Toragana would more accurately be spelled Doragene or Toragene) and that the device had a serious issue (use of the tanit in period heraldry needed to be documented, as artistic motifs are not always applicable to heraldry; translation of the arabic words was needed). The client has attempted to address most of those issues.
    Törägänä (T{o:}r{a:}g{a:}n{a:}): The client provided a photocopy of The Empire of the Steppes: A History of Central Asia by Rene Grousset (translated from the French by Naomi Walford), which says, "At Ogödäi's death on December 11, 1241, the regency was entrusted to his widow, the energetic khatun Törägänä." Also provided was a printout of http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/jessica-bonner/mongolwomen.html "Mongol Women's Names" by Jessica Bonner, which also dates this spelling variant of Toragene to the 13th C.
    Al'altun: The client provided a printout of http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/baras-aghur/mongolian.html "On the Documentation and Construction of Period Mongolian Names" by Baras-aghur Naran, which documents "Al Altan" (crimson gold).
    The submitter requests a female name authentic for "Turkic Timund/Central Asian (modernly Uzbekistan) under Jenghiz-Hanite rule". She will not accept major changes.
    The device was blazoned originally on the forms as Azure, a peacock feather between in fess a Hamsa (the hand of Fatima) bendwise and another bendwise sinister, all surrounded by a circle. The local herald crossed out "all surrounded by a circle" and added to the beginning of the blazon, "Argent, on a roundel", making the blazon Argent, on a roundel azure a peacock feather between in fess a Hamsa (the hand of Fatima) bendwise and another bendwise sinister. Given the way the roundel is drawn, touching the edges of the shield shape on the forms, I took a look at her previous submission and documentation. From that documentation, it was clear that the submitter intends to display this as a roundel, and therefore drew it on the forms in a round shape; it does not appear to be her intent to have it be Argent, on a roundel azure, but as originally blazoned Azure. However, typically we register devices on the shield shape and the submitter can display it on any shape they want. Therefore, I have blazoned it as above. I will be in contact with the submitter and local herald about getting forms without the unnecessary roundel.
    The central charge on the device was blazoned as 'a peacock feather', for which the submitter provided a photocopy of page 161 of Heirs to the Silk Road: Uzbekistan edited by Johannes Kalter & Margareta Pavaloc. No copy of the title page was sent. This page has four unlabelled illustrations, one of which shows a bowl shard with a somewhat different design with the caption, "The designs are painted freely and show plants (il. 291) and rosettes fill (ill. 292) inspired by Chinese models and leafy scrolls and peacock's feathers ( ill. 293)". It is not clear to me from the description that the marked bowl shard is being described as being peacock's feathers or merely inspired by peacocks, or even if it is even the illustration referred to.
    The client also provided a photocopy of Saracenic Heraldry: A Survey by L.A. Mayer, Ph.D, which describes this exact charge (figure 26 on the chart of "simple charges"), as the "so-called target". No copy of the title page was sent. In her previous submission, the client blazoned this, using this same documentation, as a "tanit." Page 17 of the documentation says: "The last among the dvices mentioned by Abu-l-Fida' as having been used as emblems by amirs is a 'dome' (qubbab) in connexion with which several Mamluk blazons may be misinterpreted. There is one called 'target' which might be mistaken for the outlines of a dome".
  12. Vanna Lucia Taormina. (Caerthe) New Device. Gyronny sable and gules, a butterfly argent within a bordure embattled argent.
    Her name was registered on the April 1999 LOAR.
    This device will be returned, as the use of the two-color gyronny field violates RfS VIII.2.b.iv. "Elements evenly divided into multiple parts of two different tinctures must have good contrast between their parts." The division of this field is especially obscured by the butterfly and bordure.
    Please excuse the quickly computer-colored color drawing. That's my doing.
  13. Wolf von der Mühle-Eckart. (Citadel) New Name and Device. Vert, upon a pile argent between two wings argent a trebly arched bridge sable.
    Wolf: The client provided a printout of a search for "Wolf" in the SCA online Armorial, with several instances of "Wolf" highlighted. However, prior registration is no guarantee of future registrability. He also provided a printout of http://www.sit.wisc.edu/~sfriedemann/names/german1495.htm "German Given Names from 1495" by Aryanhwy merch Catmael, which lists "Wolff". This name is also found in A Dictionary of German Names by Bahlow (translation by Edda Gentry, second edition) on page 560, under the heading Wolf(f), which says "Wolf as f.n. (sh.f. Wolfgang) becomes popular in the 16th. c."
    von der Mühle: The client provided a printout of http://web.inter.nl.net/users/Th.J.F.Schalke/godfried/6.html "The genealogical tree of Anna von der Muhle" which lists Anna von der Muhle as having been born CA 1580. Mühle is also found in A Dictionary of German Names by Bahlow (translation by Edda Gentry, second edition) on page 337, under the heading Mühl, Mühle, meaning "mill", and gives the locative or occupational byname "von der, aus der Mühlen".
    Eckart: The client provided a printout from a http://www.m-w.com/ "Mirriam-Webster OnLine" search for Eckehart, which lists "Johannes 1260?-?1327 Meister Eckehart German mystic" and has "Eckart" as a variant. Eckart is also found in A Dictionary of German Names by Bahlow (translation by Edda Gentry, second edition) on page 93, under the heading Eckhardt, which says that it was a very popular name in the Middle Ages, and also says, '"Meister Eckart", the German mystic, was active around 1300.'
    As my strengths are with armory, and not onomastics, I am not sure if 'von der Mühle-Eckart' is a plausible conjuncted byname.
    This client desires a male name, authentic for 14th-15th German, cares most about "language/culture", and will not allow major changes.

    Special addition:
  14. Leif Vagnsson. (Caerthe) Device Resubmission (K). Quarterly gules and azure, a bear statant erect contourny sustaining a Danish axe argent.
    His name is on the January 2003 Letter of Intent. His previous submission, Quarterly gules and azure, a bear rampant to sinister argent, was returned in January 2003 for conflict with Oleg Ivonovich, Per pale sable and vert, a bear rampant contourny argent, and Máirín ben Dhiarmait, Purpure, a bear rampant contourney argent, each with only one CD for changes to the field. This resubmission attempts to remedy these conflicts with the addition of a sustained axe.

Line Emblazon Sheet
Color Emblazon Sheet
May 2003 Letter of Response
May 2003 Letter of Intent
September 2003 LoAR Results
Return to the Rampart home page.

Anyone who wants to may send me a letter of comment by e-mail regarding this Letter of Presentation.
Please have your commentary on this letter to me by the end of April. Please send commentary to: alia 'at' swcp.com