Outlands College of Heralds
From the office of the Rampart Herald
Pendar the Bard - 10 Magnifico - Los Lunas, NM 87031 - (505) 866-4369
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April 2002 Letter of Presentation
June 2002 Letter of Intent
November 2002 LoAR results
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On May 30, 2002, a Rampart Meeting was held to consider the Letter of Presentation dated April 7, 2002. In attendance were Countess Anne Aliz de Bâle, Fretty Herald, Earl Cathyn Fitzgerald, Lady Alia Marie de Blois, and Maerwynn Coed y Cwm. Letters of comment were received from Master Da’ud ibn Auda, al-Jamal Herald; Master Gawain of Miskbridge, Green Anchor Herald; Lady Katrein Adler, Deputy to Aspen; the Caer Galen group which consisted of Baron Louis-Philippe Mitouard, Cat’s Paw Herald Extraordinary, Baronessa Francesca di Pavia, Pursuivant, Regana van Kortrijk, Caer Galen PE and Jeanne Marie du Bois; and the Caerthe group which consisted of THLy Eirene, THLy Rivka Vladimirovna Rivkina, Lady Sorcha MacLeod, Aspen Pursuivant, Mór inghean Cathail, and Aleanor de Leon du Monte. Here are the decisions from these deliberations:

  1. Adella de Tourlaville. Device resubmission (L). Argent, on a nesselblatt gules, a single-headed chess knight argent.

  2. al-Barran, Barony of
    Her name was registered in December 1991. Her previous device submission, "Argent, on a nesselblatt azure, a single-headed chess knight argent.", was returned from Laurel in July 2001 for Conflict with Mielikki Kantelensoittajatar, "Argent, on a nesselblatt azure a lion rampant contourny Or, foreleg armored and brandishing a sword argent." There was only a single CD for the changes to the charges on the nesselblatt. There is now a CD for changes to the tertiaries and the tincture of the nesselblatt. [Katrein Adler] - (Device): "The device resubmission seems to be acceptible barring conflicts."
    [Caerthe] - (Device): "Nice armory."

    ACTION: Device Passed.

  3. Alasdair na Fésóicce. Device Resubmission (L). Per saltire gules and sable, a bend sinister ermine.

  4. Windkeep, Shire of
    His name was registered in December 2001 via Artemisia. His previous device submission, "Per bend sinister gules and sable, a bend sinister ermine.", was returned on the same LoAR for conflict with Edward of Yarborough, "Per bend sinister gules and sable, a bend sinister ermine between a dog's head couped and a portcullis Or.", with only one CD for removal of the secondaries. And for conflict with Tristan Blackmoor of Darkwoods, "Per bend sinister gules and sable, a bend sinister counterchanged fimbriated argent.", with only one CD for changing the tincture of the bend sinister. [al-Jamal] - (Device): “The fact that the ordinary covers one of the two lines of division ("per saltire" may be said to be "per bend and per bend sinister") makes it trickier to decide exactly what is happening on the field. RfS VII.7.a. requires that "Elements must be recognizable solely from their appearance." We may need to (1) note in the blazon that the bend is *ermine _palewise_*, as that is not the default, or (2) let the submitter know that most scribes would draw the ermine tails following the line of the bend. "Charges, whether placed *on*, or *in*, an ordinary, always incline in the direction of that ordinary. It would, therefore, be incorrect to drawn the four billets, in the fourth quarter [of the arms of Panmure, *Per pale argent and gules, on a saltire between four herrings naiant five billets all counterchanged*], in the same manner as the centre one." (John E. Cussans, *The Grammar of Heraldry*, 1866, p. 50 (*see *also, *Handbook of Heraldry*, 1882, p. 160)) *See also*, *e.g.*, John Guillim, *A Display of Heraldrie*, 4th ed., 1660, p. 61, where he shows the arms of Sir Edmund Boyer of Camberwell, *Or, a bend vair between two cotises gules*, and p. 86, where he shows the arms of Willington, *Gules a saltire vair*, where the vair follows the orientation of the bend and saltire, respectively.”
    [Katrein Adler] - (Device): "Again the device resubmission appears to be acceptible barring conflicts."
    [Caerthe] - (Device): "It's lovely armory, but as clothing it reminds one of our number of a period ducal "badge" of sorts, which the submitter might like to avoid in display."

    ACTION: Device Passed.

  5. Arslan Batu-jin. New Name.

  6. al-Barran, Barony of
    Both elements are documented using the web article On the Documentation and Construction of Period Mongolian Names by Baras-aghur Naran, http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/baras-aghur/mongolian.html Although the author of the article lists several good resources to consult when constructing a Turco-Mongol name, he doesn't specify exactly where each of the name elements in the lists in his article are found. Nevertheless, it is considered decent SCA documentation for this type of name and does have an extensive Bibliography listed at the bottom. A printout of the entire article with URL was included as documentation. "Arslan", meaning "Lion", "Batu", meaning "Loyal", are found in the list under the header "Common Name Elements from Primary Sources". "-jin", meaning "of", is found in the list of "Grammatical Inflections found in Primary Sources and Mongol Naming Patterns." The article examines three linguistic models that are pertinent to our use: (n)ame, (n)ame+(d)escriptive, and (n)ame+(n)ame. The n+d pattern provides several names with one root. The Mongol word for Iron is "temur", from this root word come the names Temur, Temujin, Temuge, Temuder, and Temulun. The suffix "-jin" means "of". Hence the literal meaning of Temujin is "of iron". I don't believe the hyphen should be there, but it is how the client wrote it on the form. He will allow changes. The desired gender is male. He cares most about the meaning which he defines as "Lion of Loyalty." He is interested in having his name be authentic for the Mongol language/culture. [al-Jamal] - (Name): “Arslan is best known as the byname of the Seljuk Turk leader, Alp Arslan. If I understand the documentation summarized in the ILoP correctly, the byname should drop the hyphen: *Batujin*.”
    [Katrein Adler] - (Name): "Due to my extreme inexperience with Mongolian names, I have no comment to offer."
    [Caerthe] - (Name): "In light of the cited article, we agree that the hypen should be removed, unless someone can find out if perhaps the ending vowel of the first half requires the hyphen in the language."

    ACTION: Name Passed as "Arslan Batujin".

  7. Beatrice Carmela Mercante. New Badge. Per bend sinister Or and gules, a fleur-de-lys and a honeybee counterchanged.

  8. Caer Galen, Shire of
    Her name was registered in September of 1993 via Atenveldt. [Green Anchor] - (Badge): “The charges should be larger.”
    [Katrein Adler] - (Badge): "I have a question on this one. Is a honeybe a period charge? If so, would it be possible to have it drawn a little larger?"
    [Caerthe] - (Badge): "Please draw the charges larger. Two bees counterchanged would be lovely, and much more period in style. Would the client consider it, if it is clear of conflict?"

    ACTION: Badge Passed. (remember that size problems are only a factor if the identifiability is significantly reduced. Larger charges would be better style, but these charges are easily recognizable as they are.)

  9. Béla Kós. Device Resubmission (L). Per bend argent and sable, a hawk striking and a skull counterchanged.

  10. Unser Hafen, Barony of
    Béla is the current Crown Prince of the Outlands. His name was registered in February of 2001 via the Outlands. His previous device submission, "Per pale bevilled argent and sable, a hawk volant contourny and a skull all counterchanged.", was returned on the same LoAR. "No evidence was given that per pale bevilled is a legitimate line of division. Furthermore, even the documented per bend bevilled cannot, by Laurel precedent, be used with dissimilar charges. Legh, Accidences of Armory (1586), asserts that the field should not be charged at all. We have, as one step beyond period practice, allowed the field to be used with a single type of simple charge. The submitted device, however, would be at least two steps beyond period practice." Since both charges are important to him, he has chosen to remove the bevilled line. [Green Anchor] - (Device): “The emblazon shows (approximately) a stooping hawk, not a striking one. See the entry for "Bird" in the PicDic for an explanation of the difference. Both postures appear to be peculiar to Society heraldry.”
    [Katrein Adler] - (Device): "Another question here. Is there a difference between a hawk sable and a raven proper and does it matter? This is more for my edification. I have no problem with the device barring conflicts."

    ACTION: Device Passed as "Per bend argent and sable, a hawk stooping and a skull counterchanged."

  11. Catrin von Berlin. Name Resubmission (K) and Device Resubmission (K). Gules, three bat-winged cats sejant affronty, wings elevated and displayed, a chief Or.

  12. Caerthe, Barony of
    Her previous name submission, "Gwen Catrin von Berlin" was returned from the Kingdom of the Outlands in May of 2001 for combining Welsh and German name elements. Her previous device submission, "Per bend sinister gules and Or, a winged cat sejant contourny argent and a bat-winged cat sejant sable.", was returned from Kingdom on the same letter for violating the sword/dagger rule, which prohibits two (or more) form of the same charge in the same piece of armory, for instance a rose and a rose bud, two different varieties of fish, a mullet of seven points and a mullet of 8 points, etc. This happens when the two items are not a CD apart. A change in type of wings is not worth a CD. "Katrin" is a diminutive form of "Katharina", as found under the heading "Katharina" in Bahlow, page 274. There is no indication of whether it is period or not, but it has been registered as a given name as recently as May 1998; Katrin von Hohenzollern. No documentation was submitted with that name. The client would prefer to keep the spelling "Catrin" since she has gone by "Cat" for many years, but will accept the change to "K" if it is required. The "C" should be acceptable just like "Conrad/Konrad", etc. None of the "Catrin" names that have already been registered are in German contexts. They are mostly in Welsh and Gaelic contexts. "Berlin" is also found in Bahlow, page 56, "Berlin (Hbg. Oft): auch ein Dorf b. Segeberg/Holstein! Schon 1283 in Rostock: de Berlin: 1300 in Stralsd." She will not accept major changes, cares most about the language/culture, the desired gender is female, and she is interested in having her name be authentic for 1550-1590's Germany language/culture. [Katrein Adler] - (Name): "A very nice proper Germanic name. However, I don't know if the name construction was used that much in the time period she is wanting. If memory serves me, according Bahlow, the given name "von" place name was used extensively in the 1300 - 1400 but then they began shortening them (in this clients case it would be Catrin Berlin). I, however, could be very wrong on this and would request that further research be done before bouncing it or changing it as the name itself (with the exception of the "C" spelling of the given name) is a very documentable SCA period name."
    [al-Jamal] - (Device): “It is not necessary to state in the blazon that the wings are "elevated"; it is sufficient to note that they are *displayed*.”
    [Katrein Adler] - (Device): "The device is also acceptible barring conflicts."

    ACTION: Name Passed. Device Passed. as "Gules, three bat-winged cats sejant affronty, wings displayed, a chief Or."

  13. Chinua Al-Naran. New Device. Per bend wavy Or and gules, a sun counterchanged.

  14. al-Barran, Barony of
    His name was registered in May 1999 via the Outlands. [Katrein Adler] - (Device): "Barring conflict, this is appropriate heraldry."
    [Caerthe] - (Device): "The charge obscures the line of division. Other than that, we like this device."
    [Rampart] - (Device): “Conflict with a device on the April 30, 2002 Meridies LoI received by this office May 6, 2002- Dagmar von Zeitz “Per bend Or and gules, a sun counterchanged.” I don’t believe a letter of permission to conflict would help here.

    ACTION: Device Passed after consultation with the client as "Per bend wavy gules and Or, a sun counterchanged."

  15. Éile Duibheasa Keldeleth. New Name and Device. Quarterly purpure and argent, two swans naiant respectant necks entwined and two swans naiant inverted respectant necks entwined all counterchanged within a bordure quarterly argent ermined purpure and purpure ermined argent.

  16. Nahrun Kabirun, Shire of
    Éile is a secondary header under Éle on page 84 of O'C&M. "In Irish legend Éile was daughter of Eochu Feidlech and sister of the formidable queen of Connacht, Medb." Duibheasa is found in O'C&M, page 78, as a tertiary header spelling under Dub Essa. It was a relatively common name in the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries. Keldeleth is found in Black, page 389. It is a header spelling. Robert de Keldeleth became Abbot of Melrose, 1268. There is no indication of whether this is a Gaelic name. Having two Gaelic given names alone is enough to get this returned. She will accept changes, cares most about the sound, the desired gender is female. [al-Jamal] - (Device): “RfS VII.7.a. requires that "Elements must be recognizable solely from their appearance." The posture of the two swans in base is extremely difficult to parse without looking at the blazon. (Indeed, this sort of hyper-mirror-symmetry is not really period style, as required by RfS I.1.b.) Further, "The rabbits were originally blazoned as *conjoined in annulo*. However, the beasts were not drawn *in annulo*, where the two animals are embowed, but were drawn as *courant and courant inverted*. By precedent we do not register inverted animals unless they are part of an arrangement in annulo." (Elsbeth Anne Roth, LoAR October 2000, p. 10) "The dolphins are not in annulo, but with one naiant and one inverted. We do not allow inverted animate charges in SCA heraldry except when in recognized orientation, such as in annulo." (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR February 1999, p. 10) "The dogs are not really in annulo, and that if they are not in annulo they violate our ban on inverting animate charges." (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR April 1999, p. 18)”
    [Green Anchor] - (Device): “Ignoring the questionable style with regard to the swans, with their necks entwined this way, aren't they respectant reguardant?”
    [Katrein Adler] - (Device): "The device is in my personal opinion too busy."
    [Caer Galen] - (Device): "We would blazon the swans as reguardant. However, the combination of the swans and swans inverted give a strong radial symmetry that we believe is Non-period style, and would urge a return on that basis."
    [Caerthe] - (Device): "We find this quite difficult to identify. One commenter's guess was a Catherine's wheel with feathers. Would the submitter consider any of the following changes? Field divided per fess instead of quarterly, swans in base in same orientation as swans in chief, or not intertwining the necks of the swans? We also note in passing that the inverted swans' heads are not also inverted - they're upside down with respect to the swans they are attached to."

    ACTION: Name Passed as "Éile Keldeleth" since she will accept changes. It is not permissable to have two Gaelic given names, but it is permissable to mix Gaelic and English orthographies, so if "Keldeleth" is not Gaelic, the name should still be registerable. Device Returned for inverting animals as per the precedents quoted by Da'ud above.

  17. Jehannette de Courcelles. New Name.

  18. al-Barran, Barony of
    "Jehannette" is found in An Index to the Given Names in the 1292 Census of Paris by Lord Colm Dubh, http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/paris.html "Courcelles" is found in French Names from Two Thirteenth Century Chronicles; Places Names used in Locative Surnames by by Arval Benicoeur (Josh Mittleman) http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/arval/crusades/crusadesLieux.html [Caer Galen] - (Name): "great name!"
    [Caerthe] - (Name): "Good name."

    Name Passed.

  19. Kathws Rusa. New Device. Azure, two arrows inverted in saltire argent between three roundels one and two Or and a trimount vert.

  20. al-Barran, Barony of
    Her name was registered in October 2001 via the Outlands. [al-Jamal] - (Device): “A more typical arrangement of the charges would have the arrows issuant from the edge of the trimount, actually touching it.”
    [Katrein Adler] - (Device): "I question if this does not fall under the "slot machine" rule assuming that the trimount is a charge and not something else. I also believe that the color on color between the field (azure) and the trimount (vert) violates the color on color tincture rule."
    [Caerthe] - (Device): "Color on color violation per RfS VIII.2. The arrows need to be drawn large enough to see. Reblazon as "...three bezants one and two..." to reduce the cumbersome quality of the blazon. This one needs a lot of work."

    ACTION: Device Passed. as "Azure, two arrows inverted in saltire argent between three bezants one and two and a trimount vert." The use of vert trimounts on azure fields is well established. http://www2.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/precedents/daud2/armory5.html#STYLEREGIONAL

  21. Niall MacTaggart. New Name and Device. Per bend sinister sable and azure, a cross-crosslet fitchy and a scorpion argent.

  22. Nahrun Kabirun, Shire of
    Niall is found in O'C&M, page 145, as the header spelling. The name was made famous by Niall Naígiallach, ancestor of the Uí Néill. Among other famous bearers were the high-kings Niall Frassach (778), Niall Caille, (846), and Niall Glúndub (919). MacTaggart is found in Black, page 565, as the header spelling. This is the modern anglicized form of the name Mac-an-t-sagairt. The earliest citation of a bearer of this name is Ferchar Mackinsagart, knighted by Alexander II in 1215. He will not accept major changes, cares most about the sound, the desired gender is male, and he is interested in having his name be authentic for "Scotch/Irish" language/culture. [Katrein Adler] - (Device): "There is nothing that I can say with certainty that will cause the device to be returned. If the client really wants it and there is no conflicts, let them have it."
    [Caerthe] - (Device): "The scorpion needs re-drawn per RfS VIII.3. While the rule does not specifically mention that poor rendition may result in a lack of identifiability, it does state that they "must be used in a design so as to preserve their individual identifiability. (The stick pincers make it look like a computer mouse when colored in.) Other than that, no complaints."

    ACTION: Name Passed. Device Passed.

  23. Petru cel Rau. New Name and Device. Per pale gules and sable, in saltire a rose slipped and leaved Or and a dagger inverted proper.

  24. Dragonsspine, Barony of
    "Petru" is found in Names from the Royal Lines of Moldavia and Wallachia by by Aryanhwy merch Catmael (Sara L. Friedemann) http://www.sit.wisc.edu/~sfriedemann/names/romanian.htm The article is a list of the rulers of Moldavia from c.1351 to 1859, and a list of the rulers of Wallachia from c.1247 to 1859, sorted according to frequency. "Petru" is at the top of the list under Masculine Names with 11 citations. "cel Rau" is from the same website in the surname section. Three instances of this surname are cited dated 1508-1509, 1592, and 1592-1593. "rau" means "evil, uneasiness, misfortune." He will not accept major changes, cares most about the language/culture, and is interested in having his name be authentic for the Romanian language/culture. [Caerthe] - (Name): "The cited web article is an index, and it does not say if there was a "Petru cel Rau" who ruled in Moldavia or Wallachia. We are not familiar with these ruling lines, and do not know if they would be important enough to protect."
    [Green Anchor] - (Device): “If the client wants the rose drawn as a modern hybrid tea rose rather than a proper heraldic one, it had better be mentioned in the blazon even though there is no countable difference.”
    [Katrein Adler] - (Device): "Nice device."
    [Caerthe] - (Device): "Not a heraldic rose, and the "layered" look with the leaf over the edge of the sword is not a heraldic depiction. RfS VIII.1.c Armorial Depth - Armory may not employ depth of field as a design element."

    ACTION: Name Passed. Device Passed.

  25. Yazida bint Zabani al-Zarifa. New Name and Device. Ermine, two goats clymant addorsed, a bordure sable.

  26. Caer Galen, Shire of
    "Yazida" would be the feminine form of "Yazid". "Yazid" , "Zabani", and "Zarif/Zarifah" are documented using The Complete Book of Muslim and Parsi Names by Maneka Gandhi Ozair Husain, Harper Collins Publishers India, 1994. "Yazid: (A) 1. n.a. 2. Reprobate; impious; wicked; cruel. 3. Companions of Imam Husain at Karbala, Yazid bin Muqaffa and Yazid bin Ziyad; 2nd Umayyah Khalifah (A.H. 60-A.H. 64= A.D. 679-A.D. 683), notorious in Muslim history as the opponent of Imam Husain, Yazid I ibn Mu'awiyah; 9th Umayyah Khalifah (A.H. 101-A.H. 105= A.D. 720-A.D. 724), Yazid II ibn 'Abdul Malik; 12th Umayyah Khalifah (A.H. 126=A.D 744)." "Zabani: (A) pertaining to the tongue; (plural of Zibni) guardians of Hell." "Zarif: (A) graceful; elegant; ingenious; intelligent; goodnatured; charming." "Zarifah: (A) pretty; elegant; quaint" "Zarifa" is found in A Dictionary of Muslim Names by Salahuddin Ahmed, New York University Press, Washington Square, New York, 1999, as the feminine form of "Zarif". She will not accept major changes, cares most about the sound, is interested in having her name be authentic for Muslim/Arabic language/culture. The bordure obviously needs to be thicker I am asking them to send redrawn forms before this passes kingdom. Are there any other problems? "Clymant" is the term used for goats instead of "rampant". [al-Jamal] - (Name): “*Yazida* (or Yazidah) is the expected feminine form of the well-documented (Dodge, in the *Fihrist of al-Nadim*, cites to a number of period Yazid's) period masculine given *Yazid*. *Bint* is, of course, the standard feminine patronymic particle, "daughter of". *Zabani* is more problematical. Unless either Husain or Ahmed give us a clue as to some sort of a date that place its use before 1600, the form looks modern to me. Usually, name elements ending in "i" in period are part of a byname of one sort or another, and have the article "the", *al-*, prefixed to them. The fact that Husain notes that *Zabani* is the _plural_ form, and defines it as "guardians of Hell", only serves to reinforce the idea that this is a modern name, not something that someone would have been named in period. Nor does the name appear in either Ahmed or Schimmel's *Islamic Names*, both of which are very broad sources which contain many modern names as well as period one. *Zarifa* is the expected feminine form of *Zarif*; however, no evidence has been given that it is appropriately used with the article *al-* ("the"). There is a small class of period Arabic names which _were_ so used (*e.g.*, *Rashid* and *al-Rashid* are each found in period names), but I have not found either *Zarif* or *Zarifa* to be among them. Further, *al-Zarifa*'s position in the name would have led me to believe that it referred to Zabani, and thus the gender would be mixed; a masculine given with a feminine byname. To match in gender, I would have expected *al-Zarifa* to immediately precede *bint* in the name. The bottom line? We would probably register *Yazida bint Zarif* on the basis of the documentation submitted (giving the submitter the benefit of the doubt for the dating of Zarif), but the name as proposed is very unlikely.”
    [al-Jamal] - (Device): “She's got 29 ermine tails showing on the field; their number could safely be cut to between eight and twelve, and keep the poor scribe who draws it from going blind at an early age.”
    [Green Anchor] - (Device): “The goats should be elongated to fill their spaces.”
    [Katrein Adler] - (Device): "Device is acceptible barring conflict."
    [Caer Galen] - (Device): "Make the bordure lots bigger."
    [Caerthe] - (Device): "The bordure is too thin, and we'd like fewer, larger ermine spots, but this is a nice design."

    ACTION: Name Passed after consultation with the client as "Yazida bint Zarif". Device Passed. Properly drawn forms with fewer spots and a thicker bordure were delivered to me at Outlandish.

  27. Zulaikha bint Zuhair. New Name and Device. Or, three lozenges sable between three hands of fatima purpure.

  28. Nahrun Kabirun, Shire of
    All the name elements were documented using the article Arabic Naming Practices And Period Names List by Da'ud ibn Auda © 1998 by David Appleton. http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/daud/arabic-naming/ "Zulaikha" is found at the bottom of the list of Women's Given Names. "Zuhair" is found at the bottom of the list of Men's Given Names. She will not accept major changes, cares most about the language/culture, and is interested in having her name be authentic for 1300's North African language/culture. [al-Jamal] - (Name): “The name appears to be fine. All the elements are documented to period (*Zuhayr*, an alternate transliteration of Zuhair, is also found several times in the *Fihrist of al-Nadim*, a 10th Century source), and it is formed in one of the most common ways for personal names. Good work!”
    [al-Jamal] - (Device): “The form of the *hands of _F_atima* (Fatima is a proper name, and should be capitalized) is unusual; I didn't see them for what they were until after reading the blazon. RfS VII.7.a. requires that "Elements must be recognizable solely from their appearance." I thought they were some kind of lily. The more usual form of the *hand of Fatima* has the three central fingers parallel to each other and palewise. (And the fingertips not so pointed.)”
    [Green Anchor] - (Device): “I don't believe the blazon adequately specifies the arrangement of the charges. Perhaps "Or, three lozenges one and two sable and three hands of Fatima two and one purpure" would be more precise.”
    [Katrein Adler] - (Device): "Only a personal edification question here. Should the blazon be more specific in the placement of the charges?"
    [Caerthe] - (Device): "All depictions of a hand of fatima that we can find show the middle three digits together, not spread in this manner. We don't think it's a reason for return, but it did make us uncomfortable."

    ACTION: Name Passed. Device Pended for a redraw of the hands of Fatima.

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April 2002 Letter of Presentation
June 2002 Letter of Intent
November 2002 LoAR results
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